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anonymous908213 4 hours ago

Microsoft employee (VP of something or other, for whatever Microsoft uses "VP" to mean) doing damage control on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/scott.hanselman.com/post/3mez4yxty2...

> looks like a vendor, and we have a group now doing a post-mortem trying to figure out how it happened. It'll be removed ASAFP

> Understood. Not trying to sweep under rugs, but I also want to point out that everything is moving very fast right now and there’s 300,000 people that work here, so there’s probably be a bunch of dumb stuff happening. There’s also probably a bunch of dumb stuff happening at other companies

> Sometimes it’s a big systemic problem and sometimes it’s just one person who screwed up

This excuse is hollow to me. In an organization of this size, it takes multiple people screwing up for a failure to reach the public, or at least it should. In either case -- no review process, or a failed review process -- the failure is definitionally systemic. If a single person can on their own whim publish not only plagiarised material, but material that is so obviously defective at a single glance that it should never see the light of day, that is in itself a failure of the system.

HelloNurse 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> "everything is moving very fast"

Then slow down.

With this objective lack or control, sooner or later your LLM experiments in production will drive into a wall instead of hitting a little pothole like this diagram.

embedding-shape 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

And at the same time, they have time to quickly brush it off with "looks like a vendor" even though people are still investigating. Yes, we can see it's moving really fast, probably "move fast break things" been infecting Microsoft, users are leaving Microsoft behind because everything is breaking then clueless VPs blame it on moving too fast?

wiseowise 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Jokes on you, I’ll cash out by then and move to the next gig.

p_ing 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You’re incorrect on how the publishing process works. If a vendor wrote the document, it has a single repo owner (all those docs are in github) that would need to sign off on a PR. There isn’t multiple layers or really any friction to get content on learn.msft.

anonymous908213 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I suggested that if there is no review process, it is a systemic issue, and that if there is a review process that failed to catch something this egregious, it is a systemic issue. My supposition is that regardless of how the publishing process works, there is a systemic failure here, and I made no claims as to how it actually works, so I'm not sure where the "you're incorrect on how it works" is coming from.

p_ing 2 hours ago | parent [-]

You said it takes multiple people screwing up, implying that publishing content had multiple gates/reviewers.

It doesn’t.

2 hours ago | parent | next [-]
[deleted]
AlienRobot 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But if there are no gates, doesn't that mean the people who should have put the gates in there screwed up?

p_ing 2 hours ago | parent [-]

There is no singular publishing org at MSFT. Each product publishes its own docs, generally following a style guide. But the doc process is up to the doc owner(s).

dxdm an hour ago | parent [-]

I think you're barking up the wrong tree here.

arduanika 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

How hard is this to understand.

Person A, possibly a vendor, pushed the content. Person B, working for MSFT, approved this process where the vendor could just push content, and vetted/instructed the vendor, and trusted that this vendor/process would represent the standards of the MSFT brand even amid the temptations of new tooling. Thus, at least 2 people screwed up, and probably more, because MSFT is a large corp and the vendor might be, too.

A common word for saying "2 or more" is "multiple". Multiple people screwed up. Learn to fucking count.

RobotToaster 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've seen better review processes in hobby projects

HelloNurse 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Neither deadlines nor cheap work for hire help any sort of review process, while an hobby project is normally done by someone who cares.

scwoodal 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is correct. It just takes one person to review it and you’re good to go.

There’s also a service that rates your grammar/clarity and you have to be above a certain score.

bravetraveler 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I'll quote the relevant part of the parent post:

> that is in itself a failure of the system

... and add some Beer flavor: POSIWID (the purpose of a system is what it does)

2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
hansmayer 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> This excuse is hollow to me. In an organization of this size, it takes multiple people screwing up for a failure to reach the public, or at least it should.

Completely with you on this, plus I would add following thoughts:

I don't think the size of the company should automatically be a proxy measure for a certain level of quality. Surely you can have slobs prevailing in a company of any size.

However - this kind of mistake should not be happening in a valuable company. Microsoft is currently still priced as a very valuable company, even with the significant corrections post Satyas crazy CapEx commitments from 2 weeks ago.

However it seems recently the mistakes, errors and "vendors without guidelines" pile up a bit too much for a supposedly 3-4T USD worth company, culminating in this weird random but very educational case. If anything, it's indicator that Microsoft may not really be as valuable as it is currently still perceived.

prmoustache 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> In either case -- no review process, or a failed review process -- the failure is definitionally systemic.

Ortho and grammar errors should have been corrected, but do you really expect a review process to identify that a diagram is a copy from another one some rando already published on the internet years ago?

pointlessone 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It’s not just a copy. It’s a caricature of a copy with a plenty of nonsense in it: typos and weird “text”, broken arrows, etc. Even a cursory look gives a feeling that something’s fishy.

tharos47 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Weird text was already deemed acceptable by microsoft in their documentation as they machine translated most screenshots instead of recreating them in different locales, leading to the same problems as this image.

toong 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

"Legal reviewed it and did not flag any issues!"

kuhaku22 2 hours ago | parent [-]

This is the same Microsoft that promised to indemnify any of its customers sued over copyright lawsuits as a result of using its AIs. [0] So I'm sure legal reviewed it the same way, saying "Yep, our war chest is still ample".

[0]: https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-defend-customer...

sznio 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No. I'd expect that "continvouclous morging" gets caught.

logifail 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Shouldn't "where are we sourcing our content" be part of any publication review process?

clort 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

plenty of people on the internet recognised it immediately, so sure, he may have been a rando when he created it, but not so much 15 years later..

Freak_NL 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Just that tiny image on his blog was enough for me to go "oh yeah, I used his diagram to explain this type of git workflow to colleagues a decade ago". Someone should have spotted that right away.

p_ing 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Did the one MSFT employee that “reviewed” it know of this image? If not, it doesn’t matter how many people “on the Internet” recognized this image.

I’ll never understand the implied projection.

(I don’t think this was reviewed closely if at all)

ahoka 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes. This is expected at any serious company as intellectual property violations can have serious consequences.

michaelt 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Here is the original: https://nvie.com/posts/a-successful-git-branching-model/

Here is the slop copy: https://web.archive.org/web/20251205141857/https://learn.mic...

The 'Time' axis points the wrong way, and is misspelled, using a non-existent letter - 'Tim' where the m has an extra hump.

It's pretty clear this wasn't reviewed at all.

nxobject 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A postmortem for that but not Copilot in notepad.exe? Priorities…

tabs_or_spaces 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

An entire post mortem for a morged diagram is wild

yborg 4 hours ago | parent [-]

post morgem

Etheryte 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's post morgem time. [0]

[0] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/its-morbin-time

zuminator 38 minutes ago | parent [-]

*post morgem ti൬.

patapong 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Morgem? I barely know 'em!

batisteo 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Right to morgue

adityaathalye 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Oldest trick in the book... Shoot the vendor.

xxr 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah, isn't this why we're told everything "moves so much slower at a bigco" than at a startup?

flurdy 18 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

LOL, calling Scott Hanselman a 'VP of something' is funny. Been listening to his stuff for years, even when I despised MS. Always seems genuinely nice. Probably one of the main reasons I these days have a more positive image of Microsoft.

Anon4Now 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> everything is moving very fast right now

Now that's an interesting comment for him to include. The cynic in me could find / can think of lots of reasons from my YouTube feed as to why that might be so. What else is going on at Microsoft that could cause this sense of urgency?

mcny 2 hours ago | parent [-]

My guess is there is some communication going out to every "manager", even the M1, that says this is your priority.

For example, I know of an unrelated mandate Microsoft has for its management. Anything security team analysis flags in code that you or your team owns must be fixed or somehow acceptably mitigated within the deadline specified. It doesn't matter if it is Newton soft json being "vulnerable" and the entire system is only built for use by msft employees. If you let this deadline slip, you have to explain yourself and might lose your bonus.

Ok so the remediation for the Newton soft case is easy enough that it is worth doing but the point is I have a conspiracy theory that internally msft has such a memo (yes, beyond what is publicly disclosed) going to all managers saying they must adopt copilot, whatever copilot means.

theolivenbaum 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Seems like this is going to be the year of AI slop being released everywhere by Microsoft. Just wish they'd put as much effort into a post morten for this one as they're doing for a diagram on a blog post https://github.com/microsoft/onnxruntime/issues/27263#issuec...

reisse 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> This excuse is hollow to me. In an organization of this size, it takes multiple people screwing up for a failure to reach the public, or at least it should.

Only if this is considered a failure.

Native English speakers may not know, but for a very long time (since before automatic translation tools became adequate) pretty much all MSFT docs were machine translated to the user agent language by default. Initially they were as useless as they were hilarious - a true slop before the term was invented.

thunfischtoast 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Microsoft seems to have thrown quality assurance overboard completely. Vibe generate everything, throw it at a wall, see what sticks. Tech bros are so afraid of regulation they even drop regulation inside their own companies. (just kidding)

nhinck2 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's not just throwing QA out, they are actively striving for lower quality because it saves money.

They're chasing that sweet cost reduction by making cheap steel without regard for what it'll be used for in the future.

bonesss 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Just a thought: the timeline of the vibe techs rolling out and the timeline of increasing product rot, sloppiness, and user-hostile “has anyone ever actually used this shit!?!” coming out of MS overlap.

Vibing won’t help out at all, and years from now we’re gonna have project math on why 10x-LLM-ing mediocre devs on a busted project that’s behind schedule isn’t the play (like how adding more devs to a late project generally makes it more late). But it takes years for those failures to aggregate and spread up the stack.

I believe the vibing is highlighting the missteps from the wave right before which has been cloud-first, cloud-integrated, cloud-upselling that cannibalized MS’s core products, multiplied by the massive MS layoff waves. MS used to have a lot of devs that made a lot of culture who are simply gone. The weakened offerings, breakdown of vision, and platform enshittification have been obvious for a while. And then ChatGPT came.

Stock price reflects how attractive stocks are for stock purchasers on the stock market, not how good something is. MS has been doing great things for their stock price.

LLMs make getting into emacs and Linux and OSS and OCaml easier than ever. SteamOS is maturing. Windows Subsytem for Linux is a mature bridge. It’s a bold time for MS to be betting on brand loyalty and product love, even if their shit worked.

7bit 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Any excuse that tries to play down its own fault by pointing out other companies also have faults, is dishonest.

And that's exactly what happened here.