| ▲ | ggm 6 hours ago |
| If true, unlikely to help the working poor flying (or attempting to fly) because recourse to courts here is in the realms of the rich or benificent. So, Frommers should fund a test case. |
|
| ▲ | toomuchtodo 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| It’s annoying we don’t offer passport cards for free to people as a national government credential. The cost is similar to this fee, and your app and photo could be taken by TSA right at the checkpoint. You head to your flight after identity proofed, and your passport card could then be mailed to you. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/need-pa... |
| |
| ▲ | ibejoeb 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It is, but I think that's a separate issue. There's no authorization, let alone a mandate, to prove identity to move about. The mission, ostensibly, is to make air travel safe by ensuring that passengers don't bring dangerous items onto the plane. It's not to track who is going where. | | |
| ▲ | kube-system 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > The mission, ostensibly, is to make air travel safe by ensuring that passengers don't bring dangerous items onto the plane. No, it is to make it safe for any reason, which goes beyond whether or not they brought box cutters. | | |
| ▲ | ibejoeb 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Ok, I'll concede that. That boils down to someone bringing something on the plane that can be used to cause trouble. |
| |
| ▲ | 0xCMP 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I didn't personally experience it (I was too young), but I think that was part of "the mission" since pre-9/11. The point of the ID check is to make sure the boarding ticket and ID match. In effect that tracks who is going where. |
| |
| ▲ | 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | ggm 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You could even double them up as government issued voter-ID and save all that hassle every 4 years. Or the current round of random stop-and-search going on... | | |
| ▲ | dghlsakjg 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The people eligible for passports are not the same group of people eligible for voter id since there are a few jurisdictions where non-citizens can vote in certain elections. Voting is also a responsibility of the states (even at the federal level), so there isn't really such thing as a federal voter id since each state has different eligibility requirements for voters that don't necessarily align with passport eligibility. Additionally, passport cards aren't interchangeable with passports in most countries. Also, every four years? Elections happen more or less constantly in this country at some level or another. Federal elections are every two years, BTW, and that's if we ignore special elections for federal candidates. You should learn more about the system you live in. The current round of stop-and-search would be enabled by making passport cards or some form of universal id. The current legal reality is that you do not need to prove your citizenship on demand if you are already in the US as a citizen. The burden of proof - rightly in my opinion - lies with the government to prove that you are not a citizen. Frankly, I'm quite uncomfortable with "paper's please" entering the US law enforcement repertoire. The fourth amendment was pretty clear about this. With the CBP using mere presence validated by facial id only at legally protected protests as reason to withdraw Global Entry enrollment, it seems more and more clear that we do not need to be giving more power to the people who do not understand the 4th and first amendments. Removing people from Global Entry for protected first speech is, afaict, directly in violation of the first amendment even if Global Entry is a "privilege" | | |
| ▲ | ehasbrouck 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | FWIW, REAL-ID is not about U.S. citizenship: A passport issued by any country is considered "compliant" with the REAL-ID Act for air travel or any other purpose, regardless of the person's U.S. immigration status. Some politicians seem to have deluded themselves to think that requiring REAL-ID will stop "illegal aliens" from flying. But it won't. Many foreigners in the U.S. (regardless of U.S. immigration status) have an easier time getting REAL-ID (a passport from their country of citizenship) than some U.S. citizens. |
| |
| ▲ | lotsofpulp 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And also provide an API for online services to use so we are not beholden to Alphabet and Apple. And while they’re at it, provide an electronic money account that allows for free and instant transfers. But then how would we waste so many societal resources letting investors profit from basic infrastructure? | | |
| ▲ | secabeen 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > But then how would we waste so many societal resources letting investors profit from basic infrastructure? That, and Millenarian Christians would object to its being a required "mark of the beast." That bit from Revelations has held us back for quite a while. | |
| ▲ | ggm 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm sure some young guns from a techbro company would love to dive into the data lake and make a proposal. They might need to take a few reels of tape away for offsite analysis, but don't worry.. | | |
| ▲ | lotsofpulp 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | The reels of tape already exist at Apple/Alphabet/Tmobile/ATT/Verizon/Meta/Microsoft/Chase/BoA/etc, subject to secret FISA warrants. What difference does it make? |
|
| |
| ▲ | umeshunni 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "government issued voter-ID" Gasp! Checking for IDs while voting is fascist! It's like Germany 1937. |
| |
| ▲ | jimktrains2 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | ~~~While it's not a passport, I believe most states have free id cards that are "realid" compliant.~~~ Edit: I'm wrong. | | |
| ▲ | WarOnPrivacy 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > I believe most states have free id cards that are "realid" compliant. None in the mid-Atlantic or SE that I've seen. Some states offer free gov docs under limited programs, eg:unaccompanied homeless youth. | | | |
| ▲ | astura 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Exactly zero states give you real IDs for free. |
|
|
|
| ▲ | raw_anon_1111 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| How many of the “working poor” can afford to fly and don’t have a drivers license? All 50 states and 5 US territories issue RealID compliant drivers license/ID |
| |
| ▲ | t-3 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Flying domestically is usually cheaper than driving once you get past the range of a tank of gas or two. Also, RealID isn't fully permeated yet - my state won't fully phase out non-RealIDs until 2029. | | |
| ▲ | rngfnby 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | "once you get past the range of a tank of gas or two." This is like the folks who say flying is more carbon friendly than driving. It's wrong, you're comparing a vehicle running cost with one passenger vs a full vehicle normalized by its capacity. No one flies 30 mi commutes. Few drive 600+ mi empty or alone. | | |
| ▲ | MattGaiser 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Few drive 600+ mi empty or alone. Is there a study on this? As I would have thought the opposite and would bet that the number driving alone is increasing as more people live alone. |
| |
| ▲ | kube-system 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | For a single person going between two major metro areas, for sure. But a lot of the working poor have families and travel to/from places that aren't major metro areas, and this can change the math really fast. |
| |
| ▲ | stonogo 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | RealID licenses cost extra where I live. Your job can buy you a plane ticket but they can't get you through TSA. | | |
| ▲ | raw_anon_1111 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Are you saying our state offers both RealID and none RealID driver’s licenses? | | |
| ▲ | ziml77 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I renewed mine in May and still have a non-Real ID license. | |
| ▲ | rented_mule 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | California offers both. I renewed my license last year. I opted for a non Real ID version because I could renew online rather than spend hours at the DMV. | |
| ▲ | hamdingers 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | All states do (for now). Not everyone qualified to drive is capable of proving their identity to the level RealID requires. | | |
| ▲ | ibejoeb 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | As far as I know, Florida does not issue documents that are not REAL ID compliant. | | |
| ▲ | raw_anon_1111 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | And this is the same state that said they will have drivers license tests in English only | | |
|
| |
| ▲ | tfryman 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I know for a fact Kentucky offers both. | |
| ▲ | stonogo 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Some states, including mine, don't offer RealID at all, but instead an "enhanced driver license" that is accepted alongside RealID. I don't even have that, because I already have a passport card, so there's no reason to spend the extra money. |
| |
| ▲ | Aurornis 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > RealID licenses cost extra where I live. Where is that? I’m curious. Around here, RealID is just what you’re issued when you renew various forms of ID. I don’t even recall an option to get a non-RealID version. | | |
| ▲ | nxobject 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm in Oregon, and that's the case - about $30 extra. More people than you think don't have access to supplemental documentation required to meet extra requirements – people who don't have current travel documents, people who've just moved into town, people who don't have current documentation of address (e.g. the homeless, people in the foster care system, etc.) It's pragmatic to have: plenty of people don't or can't fly, and the cost of supporting this option is marginal. | |
| ▲ | FireBeyond 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Washington State. $7/yr more for a Real ID license - $42 more the 6 year license and $60 more for the 10. https://dol.wa.gov/driver-licenses-and-permits/driver-licens... | |
| ▲ | hansvm 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In CA it was cheaper and (far) easier to get a normal license and a passport. | |
| ▲ | QuadmasterXLII 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | for what its worth, my state made it unpleasant enough that it was easier to just got a non-real id and a renew the ol passport |
| |
| ▲ | umeshunni 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If your job wants you to fly, it should buy you an id that lets you fly. Have you never applied for a visa to travel on a business trip? | | |
| ▲ | stonogo 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | yes, if there's one thing the working poor are known for, it's successfully extracting money from their employers. if uber wants you to rideshare, they should buy you a car, right? | | |
| ▲ | raw_anon_1111 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | How many “working poor” have jobs that require business travel? | | |
| ▲ | stonogo an hour ago | parent [-] | | If the answer is more than "zero" then the fee is harmful. Since I've been in similar positions (specifically as a contractor, where I had to front-load expenses and submit for reimbursement), it seems pretty likely to me. |
|
|
|
| |
| ▲ | umeshunni 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > How many of the “working poor” can afford to fly and don’t have a drivers license? What he really means is illegals who have fake ids who now can't get RealIDs. | | |
| ▲ | AngryData an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | What exactly makes RealID more secure than the drivers license my state has issued for the last 20 years? | |
| ▲ | OkayPhysicist 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Undocumented immigrants can have authentic, non-"RealID" ids, as things such as drivers licenses are the purview of the states, and infringement there upon is an attack on their constitutional sovereignty. California, for example, is perfectly happy to give out drivers licenses to anybody who can establish residency and pass the test, since there's no sense in creating a double jeopardy situation wherein because someone has committed one crime (illegally immigrating to California), they are forced to commit an additional crime (driving without a license). It's the same reason the IRS gives you a spot to declare your bribes and other illegal income. | | |
| ▲ | II2II 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | > It's the same reason the IRS gives you a spot to declare your bribes and other illegal income. The California example makes sense. They aren't asking a question that would lead to the admission of a crime. The IRS example doesn't make sense, since they are asking a question that would lead to the admission of a crime. Even if the answer was legally protected, a government who does not respect the law (or one that changes the law) could have nasty repercussions. | | |
| ▲ | wat10000 an hour ago | parent [-] | | The IRS doesn’t ask for specifics so I don’t think it’s legally an admission of a crime. Saying “I took a bribe” doesn’t make you legally guilty of taking a bribe. You’d have to say when, from who, and for what. |
|
|
|
|