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raw_anon_1111 5 hours ago

How many of the “working poor” can afford to fly and don’t have a drivers license?

All 50 states and 5 US territories issue RealID compliant drivers license/ID

t-3 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Flying domestically is usually cheaper than driving once you get past the range of a tank of gas or two. Also, RealID isn't fully permeated yet - my state won't fully phase out non-RealIDs until 2029.

rngfnby 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

"once you get past the range of a tank of gas or two."

This is like the folks who say flying is more carbon friendly than driving. It's wrong, you're comparing a vehicle running cost with one passenger vs a full vehicle normalized by its capacity.

No one flies 30 mi commutes.

Few drive 600+ mi empty or alone.

MattGaiser 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> Few drive 600+ mi empty or alone.

Is there a study on this? As I would have thought the opposite and would bet that the number driving alone is increasing as more people live alone.

kube-system 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

For a single person going between two major metro areas, for sure.

But a lot of the working poor have families and travel to/from places that aren't major metro areas, and this can change the math really fast.

stonogo 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

RealID licenses cost extra where I live. Your job can buy you a plane ticket but they can't get you through TSA.

raw_anon_1111 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Are you saying our state offers both RealID and none RealID driver’s licenses?

ziml77 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I renewed mine in May and still have a non-Real ID license.

rented_mule 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

California offers both. I renewed my license last year. I opted for a non Real ID version because I could renew online rather than spend hours at the DMV.

hamdingers 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

All states do (for now). Not everyone qualified to drive is capable of proving their identity to the level RealID requires.

ibejoeb 4 hours ago | parent [-]

As far as I know, Florida does not issue documents that are not REAL ID compliant.

raw_anon_1111 4 hours ago | parent [-]

And this is the same state that said they will have drivers license tests in English only

ibejoeb 3 hours ago | parent [-]

That would be sensible if the traffic signs were in English.

duskdozer 17 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Can you read Chinese? Can you identify what this traffic sign means? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/CN...

AngryData an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Only if being illiterate also forbade you from driving, which it does not. You don't need to read the law to follow the law.

raw_anon_1111 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Traffic signs have symbols and shapes. You are allowed to drive in the US with an international drivers license if you don’t speak English. Are they going to arrest someone who doesn’t speak English and got a license in another state?

tfryman 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I know for a fact Kentucky offers both.

stonogo 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Some states, including mine, don't offer RealID at all, but instead an "enhanced driver license" that is accepted alongside RealID. I don't even have that, because I already have a passport card, so there's no reason to spend the extra money.

Aurornis 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> RealID licenses cost extra where I live.

Where is that? I’m curious.

Around here, RealID is just what you’re issued when you renew various forms of ID. I don’t even recall an option to get a non-RealID version.

nxobject 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm in Oregon, and that's the case - about $30 extra. More people than you think don't have access to supplemental documentation required to meet extra requirements – people who don't have current travel documents, people who've just moved into town, people who don't have current documentation of address (e.g. the homeless, people in the foster care system, etc.)

It's pragmatic to have: plenty of people don't or can't fly, and the cost of supporting this option is marginal.

FireBeyond 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Washington State. $7/yr more for a Real ID license - $42 more the 6 year license and $60 more for the 10.

https://dol.wa.gov/driver-licenses-and-permits/driver-licens...

hansvm 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In CA it was cheaper and (far) easier to get a normal license and a passport.

QuadmasterXLII 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

for what its worth, my state made it unpleasant enough that it was easier to just got a non-real id and a renew the ol passport

umeshunni 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If your job wants you to fly, it should buy you an id that lets you fly. Have you never applied for a visa to travel on a business trip?

stonogo 2 hours ago | parent [-]

yes, if there's one thing the working poor are known for, it's successfully extracting money from their employers. if uber wants you to rideshare, they should buy you a car, right?

raw_anon_1111 2 hours ago | parent [-]

How many “working poor” have jobs that require business travel?

stonogo an hour ago | parent [-]

If the answer is more than "zero" then the fee is harmful. Since I've been in similar positions (specifically as a contractor, where I had to front-load expenses and submit for reimbursement), it seems pretty likely to me.

umeshunni 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> How many of the “working poor” can afford to fly and don’t have a drivers license?

What he really means is illegals who have fake ids who now can't get RealIDs.

AngryData an hour ago | parent | next [-]

What exactly makes RealID more secure than the drivers license my state has issued for the last 20 years?

OkayPhysicist 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Undocumented immigrants can have authentic, non-"RealID" ids, as things such as drivers licenses are the purview of the states, and infringement there upon is an attack on their constitutional sovereignty. California, for example, is perfectly happy to give out drivers licenses to anybody who can establish residency and pass the test, since there's no sense in creating a double jeopardy situation wherein because someone has committed one crime (illegally immigrating to California), they are forced to commit an additional crime (driving without a license). It's the same reason the IRS gives you a spot to declare your bribes and other illegal income.

II2II 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> It's the same reason the IRS gives you a spot to declare your bribes and other illegal income.

The California example makes sense. They aren't asking a question that would lead to the admission of a crime. The IRS example doesn't make sense, since they are asking a question that would lead to the admission of a crime. Even if the answer was legally protected, a government who does not respect the law (or one that changes the law) could have nasty repercussions.

wat10000 an hour ago | parent [-]

The IRS doesn’t ask for specifics so I don’t think it’s legally an admission of a crime. Saying “I took a bribe” doesn’t make you legally guilty of taking a bribe. You’d have to say when, from who, and for what.