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Android's full desktop interface leaks: New status bar, Chrome Extensions(9to5google.com)
57 points by thunderbong 17 hours ago | 60 comments
kelnos an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I enjoy cool features like this, but as usual, I'm wary of the consequences.

Android is becoming more and more locked down like iOS. Even if it weren't, it's still always been more locked down than a standard desktop or laptop machine running an operating system of the user's choice.

With the advent of smartphones and tablets, already I see non- and semi-technical users often dropping their laptop or desktop and just using their phone or tablet. (I know people who don't even have a laptop/desktop anymore.)

Android having a full desktop interface will just add fuel to this fire, and further normalize running a locked-down OS and device that users don't truly own or control as their only computing platform.

ssl-3 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

It wasn't always so locked-down as it is today.

The OG Motorola Droid, for example: While it clearly wasn't a design intent, there was really nothing of any gravity to stop people from using it in any way they wished.

Rooting was a simple matter of running a hacked su command, and voila: One becomes root. The bootloader wasn't locked at all. Custom kernels and userlands were normal. It was a great little pocket computer to goof around with for anyone who cared enough to give it a swing.

Just install the "missing" su binary and...done.

At the time, I felt that this was a perfectly acceptable way to keep it working reliably for regular folk.

palata an hour ago | parent [-]

In a way I don't know what I think about them preventing me from modifying "their" certified OS. Many products do that (if I buy a Marshall smartspeaker, it's not like if I can modify the software, is it?).

What I want is to be able to properly install an alternative OS (just like I don't care about what Windows or macOS do, as long as I can install Linux), and that goes with the bootloader unlocking/locking.

bluGill 29 minutes ago | parent [-]

The problem is for every person who wants to do this, there are hundreds (thousands?) who wouldn't want to - and these people are vulnerable various security exploits that would allow someone evil to take over their device.

This isn't just a made up situation: There are nations that have large teams of people who's job is to figure out how to get software installed on your device of their choice/make/design, allowing them to do whatever they want.

palata 19 minutes ago | parent [-]

This isn't quite true. The Google Pixels allow me to unlock the bootloader, install my own system, and relock the bootloader. As a result, I run an alternative OS called GrapheneOS which is more secure than Android.

The fact that I can unlock and relock the bootloader is not a security issue or a risk. People who don't know what that means cannot possibly do it by mistake.

Now allowing root access to users on Android, that's a security risk because a user can be tricked into giving root access to some evil app. I don't have root access on my GrapheneOS, even though I chose to install it myself. Because it is more secure like this.

So it sounds like a fair compromise to me: they make Android the way they want, and if I don't like it I can install an alternative OS. Just like I can install Linux if I don't like Windows. What I don't like is that most Android manufacturers actively try to prevent me from doing that, and I don't like it.

palata an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I have mixed feelings as well.

The security model of Android and iOS is vastly superior, and for "normal" users it is not so much of a problem if they don't have control they neither need nor want.

On the other hand, I obviously don't like it when I don't have control over my hardware. But what I hate the most is when the manufacturers prevent me from installing an alternative OS. I like being able to install something like GrapheneOS.

Also the fact that I'm forced (in practice) to use the Play Services is not really about the device being locked down.

ece 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

Vastly superior security doesn't make you give up freedoms for security. But do tell me how successful the war against scams has been for the average user.

palata 14 minutes ago | parent [-]

I am not sure what you are trying to say.

Convincing a user to give their password will always be an issue, that's fundamental. But because phishing exists does not mean that security does not matter.

Without security, there is no need to phish, because the system does not protect anything. Once you have a good security, then the best attack is phishing because it's easier to trick the human than the system. This means that the security is good, not bad.

dfajgljsldkjag 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This looks like it will help a lot of students and families who are on a budget. If you can just plug your phone into a screen you do not need to buy a separate laptop anymore. The browser extensions are the most important part because that is what makes a computer useful. I am glad to see they are thinking about this.

joe_mamba 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>This looks like it will help a lot of students and families who are on a budget. If you can just plug your phone into a screen you do not need to buy a separate laptop anymore.

Except that android phones with display output are mostly flagships with flagship prices.

But 50 Euros on the used market got me a retired corporate HP/Dell laptop with 1080p screen, intel 8th gen i5 quad core, 8GB RAM and 256GB NVME on which I put Linux. Way better for studying and productivity than my android phone hooked up to the TV.

It's a nice feature to have as a backup in case my laptop dies, but I wouldn't daily drive an android phone as a desktop computer for productivity.

gf000 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

A 2-3 generation old pixel on the second hand marker is not expensive at all though.

And you easily add a mouse/keyboard just fine to it.

joe_mamba 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>A 2-3 generation old pixel on the second hand marker is not expensive at all though.

Sure but at around 300 bucks is still way over 50 bucks.

And even if you get a used Pixel 8, having separate phone and computer adds a priceless layer of redundancy and flexibility.

If someone steals my phone, I don't want to also loose my work PC with it.

cogman10 an hour ago | parent [-]

You are also buying a soon to be unmaintained device which will fall out of security support.

That $50 PC can run linux with the latest kernel for the next 20 years (maybe longer).

joe_mamba an hour ago | parent [-]

There's lineageOS for outdated pixel device, but I think you loose device attestation if you flash that, so your banking, payment and digital-ID apps won't work anymore which is kind of important features for a lot of people.

I still think separating a phone for phone apps and a PC for productivity, is the best choice even if that PC is a 20 year old rustbucket from the dumpster, it will still do more tasks than a phone. You can't learn photoshop on a phone.

cogman10 an hour ago | parent [-]

The lineageOS kernel isn't guaranteed to be super up to date. It's often based on the manufacturer's kernel. There's also possibly binary blobs involved which can't be checked or updated.

jeffbee 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Note that such capabilities were added to the 8 after it launched. When they launched it they did not even mention that it contains displayport alt mode.

nutjob2 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You don't wired need display output, just WiFi. Motorola's Smart Connect desktop uses Miracast for using TVs and the like as desktop monitors as well as wired.

I got my moto g84 5G with 8/256 GB for about 170 euros new and it supports it (not wired). Seems to work fine.

joe_mamba an hour ago | parent [-]

Is it any good? Last time I tried miracast the framerate and video quality was total garbage due to shit compression. Barely worked for streaming youtube videos to the TV but no way I could do it for productivity.

okokwhatever 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Do you understand how much are 50 bucks in a third world country? I mean, Android phone is not the cheapest solution for the poor (obviously) but it helps a lot having this kind of features for a family.

joe_mamba 2 hours ago | parent [-]

>Do you understand how much are 50 bucks in a third world country?

Yes I do, no need to patronize us with that since even in 3rd world countries people have access to old computers from ewaste imports at a reasonable price, we don't all live in straw mudhuts wearing loincloths swinging from branch to branch.

Now tell me which 50 euro phone ships with display output and is readily available. AFAIK Oneplus 7T I had is the cheapest with that feature but still over 50 and official SW goes to Android 12. Not sure if flashing lineage will still keep display output feature.

Then there's the issue of availability in 3rd world countries, where it might be easier to find some scrapped Dell optiplex with a core 2 duo, or a beat up Acer from the windows 7 era for cheap at your local market versus a cheap android with display output capabilities being more of a unicorn. Sure you'll find your Pixel 8s and or Samsung S24s too, but those imports don't come cheap there, compared to the masses of lesser known cheap chinese phones but those don't have display output and their software is shit.

Plus, if you go that route of Pixel 8 as a pc, you still need the budget for an external display, mouse and keyboard and your battery will wear out much faster. So then why not get a cheap laptop which has all the peripherals?

Plus 2, old phones age very poorly performance wise, they slow down a lot due to thermal paste and battery degradation and nobody makes quality OP 7T batteries anymore to do a swap and get back to out of the box performance. What you find on Aliexpress now are fakes or poor quality clones. While a laptop is much easier to repair and maintain as parts wear out or break.

drecked an hour ago | parent [-]

This is mistaken in a few way.

1. In 3rd world countries everyone has a phone, usually android, no matter how poor the are. Irrespective of whether or not it has desktop capabilities. So any phone purchase is already part of their baseline expenses.

2. Any desktop/laptop purchase, even if it is $1, is an extra $1.

3. The screens/keyboards/mouse again will not likely be purchased by individuals themselves. They will have “Internet cafes”, libraries, schools, etc where those screens will be provided.

kasabali 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

you've missed:

4. used electronics in 3rd world countries are much more expensive compared to developed ones (because not as much units were sold when they were new to begin with), so 50 euros will get you a 3rd gen in a poor condition at best (or some shit tier Celeron N-thousand something with a soldered 4GB RAM)

joe_mamba an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

>This is mistaken in a few way.

Only when you ignore the numbers.

>1. [...] So any phone purchase is already part of their baseline expenses.

Yeah but that base line expense can be 50$ or $300. Big difference. Not everyone in 3rd world countries has 300 for a Pixel 8. That's the biggest flaw in your argument. That, and the fact that walking around with an exotic 300$ Pixel 8 flags you as a potential target for mugging in the wrong neighbourhoods, verus a beat up 50$ Samsung or Huawei.

>2. Any desktop/laptop purchase, even if it is $1, is an extra $1.

Hence why a 50$ laptop and a 50$ android phone leaves you better off than blowing 300$ on just the phone alone. And if even 1$ is THAT critical to your daily survival, then you're not buying 300$ phones anyway to begin with. You're buying the cheapest you can get so that in case it gets stolen you don't lose 6 months of savings.

>3. The screens/keyboards/mouse again will not likely be purchased by individuals themselves. They will have “Internet cafes”, libraries, schools, etc where those screens will be provided.

You think in 3rd world countries people just have displays with USB-C docks, keyboards and mice everywhere in public and at home? I know it's getting difficult to tell them apart, but we're talking about 3rd world countries, not the bay area.

Zak 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Android Chrome not having extensions is just a build option toggle. It doesn't have extensions because Google doesn't want it to, not for technical reasons.

NewsaHackO 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yea, I very much doubt they would ever put a browser extension on this. It's funny, I feel as though reading some Google dev's response on reddit about why mobile chrome didn't have extensions was my inflection point when I started to realize they were becoming evil.

jerlam 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't think this leak implies that (all/some) Android phones will get desktop projection. It just means that Android has a desktop OS and is likely replacing ChromeOS as has been rumored for a while.

ashleyn 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How will this succeed where the Motorola Atrix failed way back in 2011?

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2011/03/the-motorola-atrix-4...

bsimpson 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

ChromeOS has a bigger influence on the market than a random phone model from CES when Android was still establishing itself.

ortusdux 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How as adoption been for Samsung's DEX?

wronglebowski 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I've only used it when I'm in a pinch but it's handy. Blowing up mobile apps to a larger screen and multitasking isn't ideal certainly but I've been able to handle "email job" type activities while out of pocket. That said I've never heard of anyone else who's actually used it.

wat10000 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Phones were way less powerful 15 years ago and native software was much more important. A modern phone CPU running a browser on a larger screen takes care of a lot of what you need these days.

bigstrat2003 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What makes a computer useful is the form factor (decent size screen, mouse and keyboard instead of touch controls) and having full control of the system. It has nothing to do with browser extensions.

lifetimerubyist 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah and we’ll be forced to do this because nobody can afford computers anymore because of Ram and SSD prices because of companies like Google buying it all up at extortionist prices.

We’re going backwards by putting all of our compute back in the warehouse.

echelon 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

As Google's domination continues, the US and EU need to force mobile OS vendors to open up platforms for third party app installation without gatekeeping, deep menu toggles, or scare walls.

You already need a phone to pay for parking, order at residents, identify yourself with the government, etc. Two companies should not dictate essential life function interaction.

The monopoly grip on this is so tight that it's almost impossible to compete.

SimianSci 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It really does look to be a rewrite of ChromeOS to make it a native Android experience with very few tweaks to the User experience that I can see.

I think it's a good idea on Google's part. The trend of consumers using mobiles as their one and only computing experience is still strong. This will blend the experience consumers have between desktops and their primary computing platform.

augusteo 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The Chrome Extensions support is the interesting part here. That's often the dealbreaker for using mobile devices as computer replacements.

Google's had this weird situation where Android and ChromeOS overlap more every year. At some point maintaining two operating systems with converging feature sets seems wasteful.

My guess: ChromeOS probably survives for the education market where manageability matters more than capabilities. But for consumers? Android on a big screen with keyboard and mouse might just be good enough.

oaiey 2 hours ago | parent [-]

It will not survive. No point in maintaining both. Just costs money. Device management for mobile phones is also a huge point.

My educated guess: tablet/laptop hybrids with Android OS. Not that Apple has huge success with the same move

AuthAuth an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The visual design is just so bad. Its so ugly and souless. I actually feel bad for the UI designer that had to put their name behind that.

WarmWash an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Unfortunately, it's just generally true that when a bunch of engineers complain about your UI, it probably will be well received by regular people.

peyton an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Looks great. Hope the team polishes it up before release. The visual nits in shipping Google products make my eyes bleed.

mmmlinux an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't want a Chromebook with extra steps I want a real computer.

gessha 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It is interesting to consider the different developments happening with the big mobile orgs regarding the convergence computing paradigm:

- Samsung’s Dex has been out for a while - independent devs have been working on Linux “as an app” for some time - Android desktop interface in this article - Apple developing video output on iPhones - Apple working on a Macbook with a mobile chip

- another exciting thing is XR devices and mobile computing

- my concern is convergence computing will reduce the importance of desktop interfaces and the freedom we have to install whatever applications we want

freedomben 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> my concern is convergence computing will reduce the importance of desktop interfaces and the freedom we have to install whatever applications we want

Yep, it absolutely will I expect. All the pieces are being or have been laid to build the new world where only a "trusted" device will be able to use the internet. Us nerds can still have our Linux, but it won't work with much of the internet because we won't be able to pass attestation.

Building to that future is exactly what I would expect from Apple, but Google doing so has surprised me. Google doing so is also the thing that will bring it to pass, so there's a special seed of hatred for them germinating in my heart right now. Hopefully I'm just being alarmist and paranoid, but I really don't think I am.

Some Refs:

Web Environment Integrity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Environment_Integrity

Private Access Token: https://developer.apple.com/news/?id=huqjyh7k

NewsaHackO an hour ago | parent [-]

I think tech companies are realizing that the biggest "mistake" they have ever made was giving so much freedom to the desktop user. They hate that we can look into, modify, and delete files, hate that we can add custom-made software, and hate that we can identify and turn off tracking/telemetry. They realized this with the mobile platform and locked everything down, but by that time it was already too late.

Elfener 17 minutes ago | parent [-]

Authoritarian governments (that is, what unfortunately all governments want to be) also love this, since if a few big companies control all computing, they can regulate them to control the public.

Fortunately, there are many computers already in the public's hands (which they can use to perform any computation without government restrictions and without paying/sending data to a company); but more and more people are switching to mobile platforms (and kids start out on these platforms) that I'm worried about the future.

WarmWash 43 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

>my concern is convergence computing will reduce the importance of desktop interfaces and the freedom we have to install whatever applications we want

The final nail was drilled into the coffin when a judge ruled Google a monopoly with Android a year or so ago.

You would think this is good but:

Apple was not found to be a monopoly with iOS. Why?

Because iOS doesn't allow any competitors, how can they be anti-competitive?

The judge explained this Google when they raised the issue, and just like that, Android wants to become iOS.

Good fucking job judge. 10,000 IQ ruling.

d_silin 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well, that would be nice, honestly - to have Android as another option for desktop OS.

I remember there were some experiments to create a hardware laptop shell to insert smartphone into.

d_silin 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yep, it is called a "lapdock" now.

ivell 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If it comes with fully functional command line, unix utils and ability to install linux apps from different stores, that would be great OS.

gf000 2 hours ago | parent [-]

That's already here. Android has native terminal in the developer settings and it even has a Wayland graphical environment. I have run Weston with a desktop chromium inside, playing a youtube video with sound.

dizhn an hour ago | parent [-]

But no root.

charcircuit an hour ago | parent [-]

A root account violates principle of least priviledge. With proper design a root account should not be needed.

dizhn 11 minutes ago | parent [-]

True but accessing your own files, pinging, network management etc aren't included in the things an Android terminal user can do. Hence the need for root.

theLiminator 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wonder what gogole's strategy with fuchsia is going to be.

Grazester 2 hours ago | parent [-]

What is currently is? As OS for home devices with a screen?

nish__ 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It looks really good.

giancarlostoro 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Is this going to mean ChromeOS is going to eventually die or be merged with Android? Curious.

ashleyn 2 hours ago | parent [-]

It appears ChromeOS is being killed and they're porting much of its feature set into Android. This may be marketed as "ChromeOS", with identical functionality, and consumers won't be none the wiser.

spwa4 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

So I'm guessing ... no full adblockers allowed?

whalesalad an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

so... gnome?