In a way I don't know what I think about them preventing me from modifying "their" certified OS. Many products do that (if I buy a Marshall smartspeaker, it's not like if I can modify the software, is it?).

What I want is to be able to properly install an alternative OS (just like I don't care about what Windows or macOS do, as long as I can install Linux), and that goes with the bootloader unlocking/locking.

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bluGill 3 hours ago | parent [-]

The problem is for every person who wants to do this, there are hundreds (thousands?) who wouldn't want to - and these people are vulnerable various security exploits that would allow someone evil to take over their device.

This isn't just a made up situation: There are nations that have large teams of people who's job is to figure out how to get software installed on your device of their choice/make/design, allowing them to do whatever they want.

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palata 3 hours ago | parent [-]

This isn't quite true. The Google Pixels allow me to unlock the bootloader, install my own system, and relock the bootloader. As a result, I run an alternative OS called GrapheneOS which is more secure than Android.

The fact that I can unlock and relock the bootloader is not a security issue or a risk. People who don't know what that means cannot possibly do it by mistake.

Now allowing root access to users on Android, that's a security risk because a user can be tricked into giving root access to some evil app. I don't have root access on my GrapheneOS, even though I chose to install it myself. Because it is more secure like this.

So it sounds like a fair compromise to me: they make Android the way they want, and if I don't like it I can install an alternative OS. Just like I can install Linux if I don't like Windows. What I don't like is that most Android manufacturers actively try to prevent me from doing that, and I don't like it.

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makeramen 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> The fact that I can unlock and relock the bootloader is not a security issue or a risk. People who don't know what that means cannot possibly do it by mistake.

The second sentence is false. Lots of people blindly follow things and don't understand consequences until they brick their devices. Those who don’t break something won’t notice if they’ve silently backdoored themselves.

People asking for support after getting themselves into some weird hole they never should have been in because some friend or online article said so is super common.

	▲	palata 19 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		When you reboot in fastboot mode and enter the commands that break your phone, I think you're responsible. If you take a hammer and destroy your phone, I think you're responsible.
	▲	Anvoker an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> The second sentence is false. Lots of people blindly follow things and don't understand consequences until they brick their devices. Those who don’t break something won’t notice if they’ve silently backdoored themselves. "Lots of people", how many though? Can that number be reduced? What number would be acceptable? I feel like it _has_ to be possible to devise an unlocking procedure that dissuades most people from self-harm. The problem is often treated as intractable, but intuitively this seems really unlikely to me. I don't think more than a tiny percentage of Xiaomi owners, for example, would go through the bootloader unlock process which often has a mandatory wait period attached to it without a reason more compelling than an impulse to randomly and blindly follow instructions on the internet. I would like to see user studies with good methodology before other people decide to barter long-term freedoms away for insufficient benefit. Why do I so rarely see people who are concerned about the security issues of bootloader unlocking calling for designing hassle and warning into the process. Instead, it's more common to hear that in the name of the average user, all escape hatches must be removed.

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bluGill 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There are options. However security has consistently found subtle things about most answers and so I hesitate to suggest any.