I have mixed feelings as well.

The security model of Android and iOS is vastly superior, and for "normal" users it is not so much of a problem if they don't have control they neither need nor want.

On the other hand, I obviously don't like it when I don't have control over my hardware. But what I hate the most is when the manufacturers prevent me from installing an alternative OS. I like being able to install something like GrapheneOS.

Also the fact that I'm forced (in practice) to use the Play Services is not really about the device being locked down.

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ece 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Vastly superior security doesn't make you give up freedoms for security. But do tell me how successful the war against scams has been for the average user.

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palata 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I am not sure what you are trying to say.

Convincing a user to give their password will always be an issue, that's fundamental. But because phishing exists does not mean that security does not matter.

Without security, there is no need to phish, because the system does not protect anything. Once you have a good security, then the best attack is phishing because it's easier to trick the human than the system. This means that the security is good, not bad.

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ece 2 hours ago | parent [-]

This level of security exists on open as well as closed platforms, the problem is the closed platforms not allowing you to do things that aren't giving your password away (like installing fdroid or using beeper easily). I just have a hard time believing this is superior in any way.

	▲	palata 14 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		I think you're confused. I you run GrapheneOS, it is an open source platform built on top of AOSP (the Android Open Source Project). Part of the security model is that you don't run as root. I am an advanced user and I don't want to run as root on my phone, I am happy with GrapheneOS as it is distributed. Now if you want to be root, you can install an OS that allows you to be root. Just like I unlocked my bootloader, installed GrapheneOS and relocked my bootloader, you can do that and install whatever you please. I will keep using GrapheneOS because that is the most secure OS I can find for my phone. The problem, IMO, is not that "some OS are opinionated and don't give you root access while other OSes do give you root access". The problem is that on many phones, you are not free to install the goddam OS you want (e.g. because you can't unlock or relock the bootloader).