| ▲ | rwmj 13 hours ago |
| It goes to nearly zero if China invades Taiwan, and that seems like it has at least a 10% chance of happening in the next year or two. |
|
| ▲ | ropable 26 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| If China does invade Taiwan, I feel like most people are going to have bigger problems than the Nvidia stock price. |
|
| ▲ | toephu2 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It doesn't goto nearly zero. TSMC has a large fab in Arizona and they are continuing to expand it. They also have a fab in Washington, and in Japan. [1] [1]https://www.tsmc.com/english/aboutTSMC/TSMC_Fabs |
| |
| ▲ | KK7NIL 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | The fab in Washington is very old (notice it's still equipped for 8 inch wafers) and so pretty irrelevant to Nvidia's business. I'm not quite sure what process they run there but I believe it was an acquisition 10+ years ago, not built from the ground up by them. Edit: their Japan fab is also a mature node so not very relevant here.
And their Arizona fab is a very very small portion of their volume and with far worse margin. | | |
| ▲ | pinot 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | WA fab is verrry old and makes commodity products, think like small microcontrollers etc. 160-350nm processes. |
|
|
|
| ▲ | fkarg 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I agree. It's funny that this is one of the cited reason for the (relative) value suppression of tsmc, but the same factors should apply to Nvidia too. |
|
| ▲ | eagerpace 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Going to zero is one potential outcome. Equally plausible is it goes up 10% in a relatively quick battle or diplomatic outcome which ends the geopolitical uncertainty. |
| |
| ▲ | rwmj 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | There's approximately 0% chance that China will ship leading edge wafers from captured TSMC to the West. | | |
| ▲ | wordpad 12 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Not true, it might be something they compromise on to restore relations | | |
| ▲ | IsTom 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | That's possible only if fabs are operational after the invasion. |
| |
| ▲ | eagerpace 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This is the beauty of Polymarket. Then bet on it. There are so many more outcomes possible to this conflict than what you see reported in the media. Don't be so reductive. | | |
| ▲ | rbtprograms 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | u8080 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Short the stocks then, lol. When people do this kind of predictions, they often driven by emotional reaction. Best thing to switch actual evaluation on certain hypothesis is to make actual risks cost something. | |
| ▲ | eagerpace 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Im not recommending it, but the subject here (shorting the most valuable company on earth) is pretty degen to begin with. |
|
|
|
|
|
| ▲ | alecco 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think they are already hedging for Taiwan. 1. They just pseudo-acquired Groq, fully made in USA (GlobalFoundries) and with a diversified supply chain. 2. And they just announced they will be re-introducing RTX 3090 made in Korea (Samsung). 3. And they plan to produce chips in Intel's new US fabs soon. I think the bigger problems of the AI bubble are energy and that it's gaining a terrible reputation for being the excuse for mass layoffs while suffocating the Internet with slop/brainrot content. All while depending on government funding to grow. |
|
| ▲ | utopiah 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| But then again what won't? Non tech stocks? |
| |
| ▲ | rwmj 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes, lots of other companies would be affected to a greater or lesser extent (even non-tech stocks), but specifically any company that relies on manufacturing all their product in Taiwan will be affected most of all. | |
| ▲ | zitterbewegung 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Industrial military complex and government contractors. | | |
| ▲ | LunaSea 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Don't they also depend on chips for a lot of components? | | |
| ▲ | mikkupikku 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | Probably a lot more from TI and Intel than Taiwan. | | |
| ▲ | utopiah 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'd be curious how many of the design and verification (using computer vision) tools used at TI and Intel rely on on farms of stock GPUs thus chips still made in Taiwan. They might have in house chips just for such part of their workflows though, any insight appreciated. |
|
| |
| ▲ | utopiah 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Jets, tanks, drones and data centers for intelligence services, even design, are full of electronics but what's the share of those not made in Taiwan? |
| |
| ▲ | throwaway5752 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Gold stocks, basic materials, MSCI world and emerging market indexes. Look at their prices and see how very smart people are positioning their money. | |
| ▲ | immibis 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The whole economy will crash. Probably won't be due to China invading Taiwan though. More likely because the president decided to delete their country's world reserve currency status (which is another word for a trade deficit). |
|
|
| ▲ | fullshark 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| What does the US gov't do in response? Wouldn't they throw globs of money at Intel and Nvidia? |
| |
|
| ▲ | monkaiju 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| US blows up the fabs on the way out! /s (unless???) |
|
| ▲ | khalic 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Idk the pro china side is getting more and more support, at this rate they’ll vote themselves into mainland |
| |
| ▲ | whatevaa 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Well, the reality is that most people don't want a bloodbath and it's increasingly looking like external support won't come, so what you gonna do... life is a very complex chess game, gotta play your pieces right. | |
| ▲ | mikkupikku 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | At this rate, even if they can't get the Taiwanese population to consent, it probably makes more sense to wait anyway to see how low America can sink. The lower America goes, the better their chance for success. | | |
| ▲ | Ekaros 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | China is capable of taking long term view, beyond single election cycle. And currently USA really seems to be heading down faster and faster. If something even more drastic happens. China might even attempt unification with some reasoning like protecting Taiwan from USA or other nations. |
| |
| ▲ | ddxv 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Where do you see the pro china side getting more and more support? As far as I can tell it's sharply swung towards maintaining independence in the past decade or two with single digit support of unification with the mainland. https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/PageDoc/Detail?fid=7801&id=6963 https://esc.nccu.edu.tw/upload/44/doc/6963/Tondu202512.png | |
| ▲ | blackoil 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | An EU type agreement will keep peace for some time. Remove all trade barriers between two countries, have a treaty preventing any side to be used militarily by third party, no attacking each other and free movement of all vessels through each other's seas. Maybe few more | | |
| ▲ | nebula8804 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | Thats just buying China more time until they can get their chip manufacturing to at least a similar ballpark. Then Taiwan has no cards left to play. China can cripple TSMC depriving the west of chips while they continue onwards. | | |
| ▲ | blackoil 12 hours ago | parent [-] | | "buying China more time". China has no time-pressure to attack immediately, but all the upside right now of pretending to a stable, sensible world leader. Treaty with Taiwan will keep the ego of One China, prevent it from naval blockade by Taiwanese territories and will remove one of the major territorial issues raised against it. | | |
| ▲ | nebula8804 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don't know about that...don't they have massive overcapacity in many of their industries as well as ~25% youth unemployment? For all the mess the US is going through at least we are seeing it out in the open. China seems to be going through their own messes right now but it is behind the great wall. Will a treaty be enough or will their leaders falter and try to push for more. Guess we will see. | |
| ▲ | pmarin 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don't think is about China, it's more about Winnie the Pooh's legacy. |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | cjbgkagh 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think Taiwanese elites can be bought, they say they can’t but I think that’s just part of the bargaining for a higher price. The overtures towards a costly and destructive invasion is Chinas attempt at lowering that price. As is the strategy of building up an indigenous chip manufacturing industry. The aggressive rhetoric from China has the added benefit of keeping the US on a self sabotaging aggressive posture. | |
| ▲ | ghosty141 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I mean that's obviously the best outcome for the Chinese government. Same thing that happens/ed to Hongkong. War is bad for everybody. |
|
|
| ▲ | heathrow83829 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| but they're expected to have 8 or 9 aircraft carriers by 2035, doesn't it make sense to wait until then? |
| |
|
| ▲ | idiotsecant 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| China invading Taiwan makes zero sense, they just flex those muscles for domestic consumption. They will probably take over Taiwan, but they'll do it how modern major powers do anything: propaganda, influence campaigns, and soft power. |
| |
| ▲ | CamperBob2 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Russia invading Ukraine also made zero sense, given their actual capabilities and the likely (now realized) consequences. The leader doesn't always have the best information, it turns out. Either that, or the leader does have access to the best information, and they just DGAF. That condition seems to be going around too. | | |
| ▲ | idiotsecant 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I guess I see Chinese leadership as more rational than that, but maybe you're right. |
|
|
|
| ▲ | bpodgursky 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| NVIDIA has been producing Blackwell in Arizona since October. Don't be dramatic. There would be a supply crunch but a lot of dollars will be shuffled VERY fast to ramp up production. |
| |
| ▲ | maxglute 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Arizona fabs don't work without TW's many sole source suppliers for fab consumables. They'll likely grind to halt after few months when stock runs out. All the dollar shuffling's not going to replace supply chain that will take (generously) years to build, if ever. | |
| ▲ | rwmj 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | They definitely made at least one wafer in Arizona in October. | |
| ▲ | georgeburdell 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Packaging? Assembling onto boards? | | |
|