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signal11 5 hours ago

Tahoe is a macOS mis-step on par with Windows 8 or Windows Vista. If you’re from Apple and reading this, my feedback is pretty succinct: “I don’t recommend others upgrade. I wish I didn’t.”

Luckily for Apple, Windows 11 is not exactly in a position to attract switchers.

Let’s see if Apple can turn things around. iOS 8+ did improve on iOS 7’s worst bits.

iLemming 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

One of the most annoying things after installing Tahoe for me, that for no good reason an ordinary app would randomly lose its focus. In the midst of my typing. This is unbelievably preposterous and I just can't stop hating Apple for this crap. How the fuck this is acceptable? I just have no words. What makes it even worse that I couldn't even complain about it on their support pages - they just keep removing my comments for being "non-constructive". This is some random bug, and many people have complained about it, how am I suppose to make it "more constructive"? Send them the exact configuration of constellations, the number of monitors I use and their positioning angles, log the keyboard rate and delay, the latency, the level of magnetic interference caused by my Bluetooth devices, etc.?

two_handfuls 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I wonder whether this could be a touchpad malfunction, causing phantom clicks that move focus. To diagnose, you could temporarily disable it and use an external mouse.

Avamander 3 hours ago | parent [-]

External mice also suck with macOS though.

TheCleric 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I have a Logitech MX Vertical and it works flawlessly.

Arainach 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Not sure why this is getting downvotes, it's absolutely true. For a very long time you couldn't even set different scroll directions for external mice and the touchpad - even if it's (maybe? I forget) supported now it's always been an area Apple didn't care about and was far behind Windows and Linux.

mercanlIl an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I assume it’s getting down votes because it’s off-topic. The parent comment was suggesting external mice as a temporary measure to debug the intermittent issue they’re facing.

Whether or not external micr suck on MacOS doesn’t really matter. The objective was to diagnose an issue.

anemoknee an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

It's not supported as of now. Tools like Scroll Reverser are still needed to specify scrolling behavior between the touchpad and an external mouse.

steve_taylor 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Focus stealing has been an issue in windowed multi-tasking environments from the beginning. It's certainly been an issue in all macOS/OS X versions I've used since I started in 2011.

ridgeguy 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Interesting. This is exactly the problem I've begun to have on my 14" M2 MB Air. I'm on 15.7.3. The issue started with 15.7.1.

Here I've been thinking it's a hardware problem, like some sort of mechanical intermittent. Maybe not.

crazygringo 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I appreciate your frustration, but at the same time what is Apple supposed to do? If it's affecting only a tiny number of users, and you just happen to be an unlucky one, and they don't know how to reproduce it, and you can't help them reproduce it, then what? I think they just have to wait until somebody (such as yourself) is able to figure out with some kind of logging what is happening. E.g. the first question to answer is probably what actually gets the focus, if anything? To produce a bug report that at least suggests which area of code might be responsible.

I had a similar problem at one point, then finally figured out it was when I accidentally hit the fn button which triggered the emoji picker window and moved focus to it (IIRC), but it was off-screen because I'd previously used it on a secondary monitor. Reconnecting the monitor and moving the window back to my primary display fixed it. (Obviously, it's a bug to show a picker window outside of visible coordinates, and I think it got fixed eventually.)

But it also might not be Apple at all, if it's some third-party background utility with a bug. E.g. if that were happening to me, my first thought would be that it might be a Logitech bug or a Karabiner-Elements bug. Uninstalling any non-Apple background processes or utilities seems like a necessary first step.

eloisius 12 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

They could throw some small portion of their billions of dollars into proper quality control and reproduce it themselves if they wanted to. It’s an industry-wide malaise, but it isn’t inevitable. It’s amazing that every year it becomes more and more economically unviable for basic shit to meet the modest standards of usability, yet we can use the power consumption of a small country to have Copilot in Notepad.

JoBrad 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Windows has had a “prevent apps from stealing focus” option for at least a decade. It was one of the things that I still dislike the most about macOS, and Apple can absolutely address this.

Someone1234 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Windows has no such option, and regularly steals focus, particularly Visual Studio/Debug tools/applications loading. It had an option for a short period with the original TweakUI, but Microsoft removed support for it even in the registry.

No OS should steal focus, Windows absolutely is guilty of it.

pixelpoet 42 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Windows itself isn't guilty of this in my experience (lifetime of use until Linux switch last year), but other apps like shitty Akamai. Some years ago a coworker wrote this blog post and a simple tool to find out which programs are doing it: https://forwardscattering.org/post/30

AnyTimeTraveler 44 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Many Linux display managers let you chose what to do, when a window requests focus. For me on Sway, it just turns the border red.

I chose what happens after. Can recommend. I wasn't even aware of my privilege.

jdiff an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Where's that hiding? Discord is horrifically guilty of this across every OS, so I'd love a way to quash that on at least one.

WD-42 29 minutes ago | parent [-]

GNOME on Linux prevents it. You get a notification "Discord updater is ready" instead which you can activate if you want to give it focus - which I never do. F the Discord updater.

tw04 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I can tell you bartender 6 has been perpetually broken since release and does this. I finally gave up on it after the devs sent me “fixes” that never fixed anything.

nazgul17 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Dunno, not deleting the posts would be a good start.

m0llusk an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> ... what is Apple supposed to do? ...

This seems like an example of a situation that modern machine learning could help with. Take bug reports permissively and look through all of them for patterns. Loss of focus should be the kind of thing that would stand out and could be analyzed for similarities and recurring features. Making sense of large amounts of often vague and rambling reports has been a problem for a long time and seems like a domain that machine learning is well set for.

bsder 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> how am I suppose to make it "more constructive"?

Obviously by shutting the hell up, you ungrateful serf. The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Seriously, though, if you want this to stop, people like you are going to have to start voting with their wallets.

I finally pulled the plug on macOS a couple years ago for Linux, and I haven't been unhappy about it. However, I did make a point of buying a laptop that was well supported on Linux (a Lenovo X1 Carbon that was in the same price class as an equivalent Mac).

marssaxman 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I did the same a decade ago, and I've been fully content with my Linux-only life - but a new MacBook recently arrived along with a new job, so now I'm using Tahoe whether I like it or not. It's generally difficult to vote with someone else's wallet.

bsder 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Well, be glad you're working for a company that is still willing to stump up properly for hardware.

Too many companies are balking at spending money on hardware right now. While I would love to think that this will drive Linux adoption, it probably won't. Microsoft is going to cave on TPM 2.0 for Windows 11 or extend Windows 10 support much further.

2 hours ago | parent | next [-]
[deleted]
DerArzt an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I can't speak for all companies, but the feeling I get from mine is that the issue is more about the maintenance and support for Mac rather than the little extra spend to get a MacBook pro instead of the standard windows box.

foxandmouse 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Luckily for Apple, Windows 11 is not exactly in a position to attract switchers.

Yes, but Linux is finally in that position, not to mention we're seeing silicon from intel and amd that can compete with the M series on mobile devices.

Saline9515 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Linux isn't in position regarding display/UI. It doesn't handles HiDPI (e.g 4K) screen uniformly, leading to a lot of blurry apps depending on the display abstraction used (Wayland/X11) and compositor (GNOME, KDE, etc, all behave differently).

Let's not even talk about the case when you have monitors that have different DPI, something that is handled seamlessly by MacOS, unlike Linux where it feels like a d20 roll depending on your distro.

I expect most desktop MacOS users to have a HiDPI screen in 2026 (it's just...better), so going to Linux may feel like a serious downgrade, or at least a waste of time if you want to get every config "right". I wish it was differently, honestly - the rest of the OS is great, and the diversity between distros is refreshing.

drnick1 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Linux isn't in position regarding display/UI. It doesn't handles HiDPI (e.g 4K) screen uniformly, leading to a lot of blurry apps depending on the display abstraction used (Wayland/X11) and compositor (GNOME, KDE, etc, all behave differently).

I have been using a 4K display for years on Linux without issues. The scaling issue with non-native apps is a problem that Windows also struggles with btw.

pkulak 6 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wait, has MacOS finally figured out fractional scaling? Last I looked, Linux actually had better support. And now Linux support is pretty good. It’s really only older apps that don’t work.

starkparker an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Every 4K external display I've connected to every M1- and M2-series Mac running macOS has a known flickering issue with Display Stream Compression that Apple knows about and has been unable or unwilling to fix.

The only reliable fixes are to either disable that DisplayPort feature if your monitor supports it, or to disable GPU Dithering using a paid third-party tool (BetterDisplay). Either that or switch to Asahi, which doesn't have that issue.

The issue is common enough that BENQ has a FAQ page about it, which includes steps like "disable dark mode" and "wait for 2 hours": https://www.benq.com/en-us/knowledge-center/knowledge/how-to...

storus 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I recently bought a MacStudio with 512GB of RAM and connected it to a LG 5k2k monitor. For some reason there was no way to change the font size (they removed the text size "Larger Text ... More Space" continuum from the Display section of settings) so I ended up with either super small or super large fonts without anything in-between. In the end I had to install some 3rd party software and mix my own scaled resolution with acceptable font size. This has never been a problem on Linux in the past 10 years, all I needed to do at worst when it wasn't done out of the box was to set scale somewhere and that was it.

Saline9515 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I bought a MacStudio 2 months ago, on Sequoia you go to "display" and should see the various resolutions. If not, "advanced">"show resolutions as a list">"show all resolutions".

storus 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Unfortunately, resolutions offered were weird. Native is 5120x2160 but that wasn't offered and scaled resolutions were weird. I guess macOS didn't read monitor's information properly or something. I wasted a few hours frantically trying to figure out how to connect a $12k computer to a 4-year old monitor which should have been a breeze but for some reason wasn't. The same monitor worked fine on Linux or Windows.

pests an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Frantically? For hours? If that is what you meant, did you try stepping back for a few minutes, and coming up with a plan / doing research?

FireBeyond an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I feel like this has something to do with Apple fucking with DP 1.4 for the ProDisplay XDR.

My 2019 Mac Pro with Catalina could happily drive 2 4K monitors in HDR @ 144 Hz.

People wondered how Apple got the math to work to drive the ProDisplay.

Big Sur? Not any more. 95Hz for 4K SDR, 60Hz for 4K HDR. Not the cables, not the monitors. Indeed, "downgrading" the monitors advertised support to DP 1.2 gave better options, 120Hz SDR, 75Hz HDR.

And it was never fixed, not in Big Sur, Monterey or Ventura, when I had switched monitors.

Hundreds of reports, hundreds of video/monitor combinations.

QuercusMax 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

BetterDisplay has solved a ton of problems like this for me; when MacOS gets confused about non apple monitors, BetterDisplay knows how to fix things.

chrisweekly 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Curious what software; I've used "SwitchResX" in the past and it met all my needs...

stephenr an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

AFAIK the smallest 5K2K is 34", with a PPI of 163. I don't believe that is treated as "HiDPI" by macOS, is it?

blinkingled 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I am a full time KDE/Arch user and since Plasma 6 haven't had any HiDPI issues including monitors with different DPI or X11 apps - of which there are very few nowadays.

wolvoleo 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

I run plasma 6 on X11 and it also functions amazingly well on 200% scaling.

lovasoa 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I use linux at home (with a HiDPI screen) and MacOS for work. The screen works well with both computers. I mostly just use a text editor, a browser, and a terminal though.

Linux has bugs, bug MacOS does too. I feel like for a dev like me, the linux setup is more comfortable.

mcny 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Same here. I stick to 100% scaling and side step the whole hi dpi issue. I even have a single USB type c cable that connects my laptop to the laptop stand and that laptop stand is what connects to the monitor, keyboard, and mouse.

I know people will say meh but coming from the world of hurt with drivers and windows based soft modems — I was on dial up even as late as 2005! — I think the idea that everything works plug and play is amazing.

Compare with my experience on Windows — maybe I did something wrong, I don't know but the external monitor didn't work over HDMI when I installed windows without s network connection and maybe it was a coincidence but it didn't work until I connected to the Internet.

deaux 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255860955?sortBy=upvote...

MacOS isn't in any kind of position regarding displays. 180+ replies and 300+ upvotes by the 0.1% of sufferers who bother to find these threads, log in, and comment of them. Exteemely widespread, going on for years, thread silently locked.

seba_dos1 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sure, you can find some obscure DEs that don't handle that well yet. Or you could just use Plasma and have it all work just fine, like it did for many years now.

Macha 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Linux isn't in position regarding display/UI. It doesn't handles HiDPI (e.g 4K) screen uniformly, leading to a lot of blurry apps depending on the display abstraction used (Wayland/X11) and compositor (GNOME, KDE, etc, all behave differently).

Meanwhile on MacOS my displays may work. Or they might not work. Or they might work but randomly locked to 30hz. It depends on what order they wake up in or get plugged in.

I suspect the root of the problem is one of them is a very high refresh rate monitor (1440p360hz) and probably related to the display bandwidth limitations that provide a relatively low monitor limit for such a high cost machine.

deaux an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I have similar issues without the high refresh rate. It's a MacOS bug related to sleep/wake corrupting internal display settings.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/255860955?sortBy=upvote...

After 344 "me too"s and 180+ replies they silently locked the thread to save themselves from more embarassment.

QuercusMax 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I finally got fed up with my two external monitors (one of which I rotate to portrait) getting mixed up by MacOS every time my MacBook would go to sleep or I unplugged it, so I bought a thunderbolt docking station which has basically solved all my issues. Worth every penny to be able to swap my personal laptop and work laptop with a single cable.

Macs don't support the USBC / displayport daisy chaining support that my monitors should be able to handle. Very frustrating that this stuff is still so nonstandard. If you have all Apple it all works perfectly, of course.

Macha 2 hours ago | parent [-]

But don’t forget to order the “right” (i.e. caldigit) dock. My dell dock is even more of a mess on the Mac than plugging the monitors in directly. Works great with a Dell (obviously) and framework laptop running Win10 and Linux respectively though

cosmic_cheese 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It also doesn't offer a Mac-style desktop environment, which is one of the things keeping me away. KDE/Cinnamon/XFCE lean more Windows-style, GNOME/Pantheon (Elementary) is more like iPadOS/Android in desktop mode. My productivity takes a big hit in Windows-style environments and I just don't enjoy using them.

I hope to put my money where my mouth is and contribute to one of the tiny handful of nascent Mac-like environment projects out there once some spare time opens up, but until then…

bsimpson 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

So apparently when Canonical was the gorilla in desktop Linux, they had a push to have apps make their menus accessible via API. KDE supports that protocol. There are KDE widgets that will draw a Mac-style menu bar from it.

That means you can take the standard KDE "panel" and split it in two halves: a dock for the bottom edge, and a menus/wifi settings/clock bar for the top edge.

There are some things I don't know how to work around - like Chrome defaulting to Windows-style close buttons and keybindings, but if the Start menu copy is the thing keeping you off Linux, you can mod it more than you think you can.

cosmic_cheese 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Yep, I've played with it. Things might've changed but I couldn't get KDE's global menubar to work at all under Wayland, and under X11 a lot of apps don't populate it.

freedomben 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Gnome with a persistent app drawer is relatively Mac-like. With a couple settings tweaks and possibly extensions, it can get pretty close. Even out of the box it feels a lot more mac-like than windows-like to me, but of course everybody is a bit different.

cosmic_cheese 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Some of the broad strokes are there, but the details are what matters. Gnome extensions also come with the problem of breaking every other update which quickly becomes irritating.

truncate 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've not had any issues with 4k display. Mac does handle monitors with different DPIs well, but not really a issue for me. Most hardware I use also just works great. Gaming is great now as well.

The only reason I can't completely switch to Linux is because there are no great options for anything non-programming related stuff I love to do ... such as photography, music (guitar amplifier sims).

jhasse 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

GNOME still has some problems with fractional scaling, but KDE works perfectly. I'm using two displays, one with 150% and one with 100%. No blurry apps and absolutely no issues. Have you tried it recently?

sbrother 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Can you independently set desktop wallpapers on the two screens? I know this seems nitpicky but it's literally impossible with Ubuntu/Gnome as far as I know; I have one vertical and one horizontal and have to just go with a solid color background to make that work.

Macha 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes. It was actually more tedious to do the inverse when I wanted three screens to do a rotating wallpapers from the same set of folders as I had to set the list of folders three times

freedomben 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've been using fractional scaling on Gnome for years (including on the laptop I'm typing this on) and haven't had any issues. I haven't tried it with two displays that are set differently though. Is that a common thing?

cosmic_cheese 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

KDE is in better shape than GNOME, but there are still some nits. Nearly all the available third party themes for example are blurry or otherwise render incorrectly with fractional scaling on.

cwillu 4 hours ago | parent [-]

So don't use a third party theme.

cosmic_cheese 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Problem is, the stock themes aren't to my taste at all.

nish__ 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Why not send a pull request to one of your theme maintainers?

cosmic_cheese 3 hours ago | parent [-]

To my understanding, doing that wouldn't be helpful due to hard technical limits that can't be reconciled. Most window chrome themes are Aurora themes, which don't play nice with HiDPI, and to change that they'd need to be rewritten as C++ themes (like the default Breeze theme is), which is beyond the capabilities of most people publishing themes.

cherryteastain 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not a problem on my Fedora Silverblue 43 machine with dual 4K 27" screens at 125% scaling. Zero blurry apps, including XWayland ones.

piskov 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Boy, does that fractional scaling should look like shit on any vector graphics.

That’s why Apple used 4k on 22”, 5k on 27 and 6k on 32 to make it crispy always on 200%

eek2121 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My dude, It's been more than capable for years. I have an ultrawide OLED monitor (3440x1440@165hz) paired with a 4K@144hz monitor. Both HDR, different capabilities. Both have different DPIs set, 125% for one, 200% for the other. My setup required less configuration than Windows does. Right click -> Display Configuration -> Set Alignment (monitor position) -> Set refresh rate -> Set HDR -> Set DPI -> Apply. Done.

Don't knock it unless you've tried it.

This was CachyOS btw. Windows actually required MORE work because I had to install drivers, connect to the internet during setup, get nagged about using a Microsoft account, etc.

CachyOS was basically boot -> verify partitions are correct -> decide on defaults -> create account/password -> wait for files to copy -> done. Drivers, including the latest NVIDIA drivers, auto installed/working.

Saline9515 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Tried 3 months ago with Gnome (PopOS) and a 4k screen at 125% scaling, apps were blurry, especially Brave, which was a big disappointment.

I give Linux a try each time I need to set up a new computer, and each time run into new issues. Last time (2 years ago) the hdmi connection with the screen would drop randomly twice a day. Same for the keyboard, and the wifi card didn't have drivers available. It became quite annoying, reducing my productivity as I had to reboot and pray. I then installed Windows, which solved all of the issues (unfortunately?)

Maybe I'm just unlucky.

chocochunks 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

MacOS doesn't handle HiDPI screens that well either. The most common and affordable high res monitors are 27" 4K monitors and those don't mesh well with the way macOS does HiDPI. You either have a perfect 2x but giant 1080p like display or a blurryish non-integer scale that's more usable.

And god forbid you still have low DPI monitor still!

bsimpson 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Blows my minded that a 4k 27" monitor that was $500 a dozen years ago is still near top tier now.

5k has been surprisingly stagnant.

SoftTalker 3 hours ago | parent [-]

At some point additional resolution is a dimishing return. The human eye has limits.

robotresearcher 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

5K 27” looks usefully better than 4K 27” to my middle aged eyes.

I’d prefer that to not be so, because 5K panels are so much more expensive. But in a side by side comparison it’s very obvious.

But the market has spoken: a quality 4K display is very good, certainly good enough, and the value for money is great.

I’m ok with spending more on a better display that I spend so much time with. The cost per use-hour is still very, very low.

intrasight 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

We're approaching that point but are not there yet

Saline9515 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You can adjust this in settings.

chocochunks 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Adjust it to what? Making a 4K monitor look like 1440p (or a non-1080p or 4K desktop) ends up with a non-integer scale on macOS AFAIK. They also completely tore out subpixel font rendering for low DPI displays.

greenavocado 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You're supposed to use KDE with Xorg if you want things to just work. KDE with Wayland if you're adventurous.

Therefore newcomers should use Kubuntu or the likes of it

6SixTy 4 hours ago | parent [-]

KWin/Xorg AFAIK has been on maintanence duty (i.e. fixes mostly come from XWayland) for >5 years now. KDE has expulsed the Xorg codebase of KWin into a seperate repo in preparation of a Wayland only future.

Even if KDE/Xorg is a stable experience is true now, it will not be true in the medium to short term. And a distro like Kubuntu might be 2 years out from merging a "perfect" KDE Plasma experience if it arrived right now.

jdejean 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Tahoe is uniquely bad in so many ways, so I tried the Asahi Fedora Remix with Gnome on my M2 Mac Mini. Aesthetically I was more attracted to Gnome, it feels like what we lost with Tahoe. Tahoe to me feels like a really chopped Android skin or something. I made it a few weeks on the Fedora Remix but ended up having to switch back to Mac over missing webcam drivers and other random hardware issues. Plus there’s little OS things that Mac does that make it really hard to go elsewhere.

nine_k 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Could you list some of these little things that macOS does and that you miss?

(I usually miss the little Linux-specific things that macOS does not.)

jdejean an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Most of my gripes are probably Gnome specific in this case - When you screenshot something it pins the image temporarily on the screen. If I drag into any open app it avoids saving it to disk. - Pressing CMD W or Q consistently closes any app (works on some gnome apps) - Mac keychain passkeys (I don’t own a usb stick) - Third party window management (through accessibility privileges only) - Apps respecting dark mode settings - The app menu (file, edit, window, etc) being in the same spot every time

Definitely not exhaustive since I only spent a few weeks with it. There were also plenty of things I liked about Gnome more but not enough to tip the scale for me

jonquest 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

iMessage, Apple Pay (w/Touch ID), native Apple Music client, iCloud (if you're invested in the iCloud ecosystem) along with its seamless integrations with photo apps like Photomator (among others), shared music and movie library across my Mac, iPhone, and Apple TV.

There's probably a lot more I'm not thinking of right now. Point is, if you're an iOS, macOS, and iCloud user you give up a lot of quality of life bits going to another platform. There are times I want to go back to Linux, but when I think about the stuff I'm going to loose I talk myself out of it. macOS isn't the greatest, but it's not the worst either and Apple's products and services just tie in very well with each other. I get annoyed by things like the shitty support for non-apple peripherals, needing 3rd party apps to make them work decent, crappy scaling except on the most expensive monitors and no decent font smoothing when running at native resolutions. But... I stick with it because I either like or love the tight integration and added quality of life that comes with it.

nine_k 9 minutes ago | parent [-]

Ah, I get it. I don't like integration of this sort, because it quietly screams "lock in", but do I see how it can be very convenient. So I make do with my own, likely inferior, using Syncthing, and Google Photos for browsing. My music is mostly CD rips, Bandcamp, and some YouTube, and I don't do TV, so it's just easier for me than for normal folks. I can listen to my collection anywhere over a Wireguard connection on my laptop or my phone.

It's a different set of trade-offs; less polish, more control.

Mistletoe 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

>ended up having to switch back to Mac over missing webcam drivers and other random hardware issues

This has been my experience every time I try Linux. If I had to guess, tracing down all these little things is just that last mile that is so hard and isn't the fun stuff to do in making an OS, which is why it is always ignored. If Linux ever did it, it would keep me.

wtetzner 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

One solution to this problem is to buy from a vendor that installs Linux for you (e.g. System76). Much like with Apple, they can sell you a fully functional computer that way.

black_puppydog 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My understanding is that the asahi team have been doing incredible work exactly with doing the non-fun bits. They just chose to do it on the hardware of a company that's extremely hostile to this kind of effort.

Kina 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Apple is on the record as being neutral at worst on the matter and at best weakly supportive. I think there was an article when the M1 came out where it was reported that the Asahi Linux folks met with some Apple developers where they were encouraged to explore the system and report bugs, but that Apple was not going to offer any support.

Apple has also done things such as adding a raw image mode to prevent macOS updates from breaking the boot process for third-party operating systems. Which is only useful for 3rd party operating system development.

jdejean 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have to say that almost everything worked out of the box. The webcam is known to not mesh great with Asahi quite yet. Otherwise:

- Machine failed to wake from suspend almost 50% of the time (with both wired and BT peripherals) - WiFi speed was SIGNIFICANTLY slower. Easily a fraction of what it was on Mac - USB C display was no-op - Magic trackpad velocity is wild across apps - Window management shortcuts varied across apps (seems Gnome changes a lot, frequently) - Machine did not feel quicker, in fact generally felt slower than Tahoe but granted I did not benchmark anything

I would happily try it again when the project is further along

exidy 36 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Apple are not hostile, they are indifferent. If they were hostile, it would have been shot down both technically and legally long ago.

tuckerman 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think this is true with an arm mac (and would be tricky to fix that, props to the Asahi folks for doing so much) but for a lot of other hardware (recent dell/asus/lenovo, framework, byo desktops) I find Linux complete. I'm sure there is hardware out there that with struggles but I've not had to deal with any issues for a few years now myself.

pxc 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Bringing random hardware from vendors who never intended to support an OS is a weird criterion to judge an OS' "readiness" by— and one no one seems to apply to macOS or Windows.

Mistletoe 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I have never had an issue making whatever Frankenstein monster PC I create eventually work in Windows.

ryang2718 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It can be very device specific unfortunately. Thinkpad tend to work quote well. I had a Framework that my wife took from me and it's truly fantastic, works out of the box.

bsimpson 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I fell down the Nix hole this weekend, getting my corp Mac and my SteamOS Legion Go sharing a config. My corp device is a 5k iMac Pro that is going to be kicked off of the network when ARM-only Tahoe becomes mandatory later this year.

I work at Google, which issued a Gubuntu workstation by default when I joined. I exchanged it for a Mac, which I've spent a literal lifetime using, because I didn't wanna fall down a Linux tinkering hole trying to make Gubuntu feel like home. Every corp device I've had has been a Mac.

I'm reading this from a coffee shop. On my walk here, I was idly wondering if I should give Glinux (as its now called) a try when I'm forced to replace the iMac. SteamOS is making Linux my default environment in the same way Mac was for decades prior.

akagusu 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

No, it is not. Apple went down to the same level of Linux, not Linux that became as good as Apple.

Unfortunately today it is a race to the bottom.

nine_k 3 hours ago | parent [-]

As a long-term Linux user, and a regular macOS user, I must say that the motion is mutual. Linux has become way better, and macOS, somehow worse. But resizing and moving windows nearly , and switching between windows (not whole apps) has always been problematic in plain macOS, for reasons mysterious to me.

5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
CSSer 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yeah, and gaming aside from anti-cheat isn't a broken mess anymore either. Valve has made sure of that.

carlosjobim 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Linux doesn't have much in the way of quality apps for people who aren't programmers, server administrators, or gamers.

Most people want to get productive work done with their computer, and OS X has top tier apps for every need possible.

No good e-mail app, no good office apps, no good calendar app, no good invoicing app, no good photo editing app, no good designer app, etc

zapzupnz 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In the Hacker News bubble, maybe. In the real world, not even close. The reasons why many a person chooses to use macOS, outside of the "YoU bUy It FoR ThE lOgO" that many hard-core technologists seem to believe, don't exist in any desktop environment.

Sometimes, people think "it can be made to look similar, therefore it's the same" (especially with regard to KDE), and no, just no.

dmitrygr 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> not to mention we're seeing silicon from intel and amd that can compete with the M series on mobile devices.

[[citation needed]], benchmarks please, incl battery life, not promises. "We are seeing" implies reality

nntwozz 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not to beat on my own drum but as a mac convert from the days of Tiger I saw the writing on the wall from miles away.

Still on iOS 18 and macOS 15 (Sequoia). I was a day one upgrader up until now, never had any regrets but this time things seemed very different.

It's worrisome but all is not lost, I'll start sweating for real if next year's releases don't improve things substantially.

ValentineC 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Still on iOS 18 and macOS 15 (Sequoia). I was a day one upgrader up until now, never had any regrets but this time things seemed very different.

I've tried and returned the iPhone 17 Pro. Love the hardware (especially the camera), but iOS 26 is inefficient (for lack of a better term), and the new camera UI hides too many things.

testfrequency 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Maybe you didn’t catch this yet, but Apple pulled their latest iOS 18.7.3 update and they seem to only promote iOS 26 now. They really want everyone off iOS 18 :/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2026/01/07/hundreds-...

cr1895 4 hours ago | parent [-]

You can sign up for Apple beta and keep doing iOS 18 updates.

rconti 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Same I'm on iOS 26 and it's reasonably bad but I figured I might as well pull of the band-aid and have app compatibility.

I can't see a single reason to upgrade to Tahoe. We'll see what 2026 brings.

shawnz 5 hours ago | parent [-]

One huge benefit of Tahoe for me is that you can now hide any menubar icon, even if they don't explicitly support hiding. It's a small thing but that alone makes the upgrade worth it for me

nextos 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The Tiger to Snow Leopard era was fantastic. Things were simple and worked.

There was also a great boutique apps ecosystem.

Right now, it seems that macOS is going through its enshittification phase, sadly.

stevage 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I still remember Snow Leopard - I think that's when I started using Mac.

Most of the upgrades since then I have resisted and not enjoyed, though I seem to recall liking Mavericks.

A lot of the big features each time seem to be about tieing further into the Apple ecosystem, which doesn't interest me at all, since I have no other devices and don't use iCloud.

zokier 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think also that Snow Leopard era (unibody) MacBook Pro design was peak Mac. It was really full-featured while also having clean intentional design.

BoredPositron 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Tiger on a G4 tibook was peak apple.

JumpCrisscross 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Tiger to Snow Leopard era was fantastic. Things were simple and worked

Was it also great for developers? (Genuine question.)

wk_end 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah, OS X was definitely the nicest native development experience at the time. Apple's documentation was considerably better and more searchable back then than it is now (especially as it is now for desktop). And even though they've introduced lots of niceties (including Swift), as Apple's piled additional features and APIs into Cocoa/Xcode I find the overall experience quite a bit less coherent or intuitive or ergonomic than it used to be.

zokier 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm not mac dev but wasn't apple all in on objc back then and these days it's more swift? that is pretty big shift, I'd assume for the better for most parts.

debo_ 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I prefer Swift as a language, but Apple's developer documentation back then was clear, detailed, and overall excellent. Occasionally I felt like I was reading a classic CS text rather than a manual. I could always find the guide on the particular facet I was looking for within a few clicks.

billylo 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

xcode has been getting better bit-by-bit. No major regression.

ost-ing 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Apple software has noticeably declined from my experience, both iOS and macOS. I find the lifecycle of Apple products to be offensively short, also.

If I buy a product and the hardware is good for 10 years (because I looked after it), I expect the software to also run just as well as when I purchased it - that is the case with Linux, why isn't it the case with macOS?

Every year the software upgrades invariably degrade system performance. Outrageous.

mschuster91 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> I find the lifecycle of Apple products to be offensively short, also.

Apple is miles ahead of Android when it comes to phones and tablets, most in the Android ecosystem is e-waste four or five years in, while Apple stuff can still be re-sold for actual money at that time assuming you didn't bust your screen.

For laptops, Apple is so far ahead it can't even be described. Most Windows laptops physically break apart before macOS ceases to support any Apple laptop.

Only thing we can maybe talk about is desktop PCs ever since the switch to M that basically made meaningful upgrades impossible, but eh, in my attic there's a 2009 Mac Pro still chugging along as my homelab server + gaming rig.

chadcmulligan 35 minutes ago | parent [-]

I'm using a MacBook Pro 2016 for dev still works great, and its still better than every windows laptop available now. The touchpad itself is still superior - its crazy when you think about it. I know people on their 3rd or 4th windows laptop since I've been using mine. I tried a M4 recently and its battery life is fantastic, and its faster so I'll probably upgrade when this one dies, but it still works well.

Edit: just did a google and it seems I can still sell it for about $600AUD, I don't know how anyone is buying a non apple lap top.

scarlehoff 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I agree. This is the first time I regret updating macOs.

I hoped the .1 or .2 would fix things, but I'm still seeing glitches and even random freezes.

Microsoft is a disaster right now, but if the new intel processor can compete on battery life with mac I might go back to linux.

taminka 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

first time i used tahoe to help a friend w/ their laptop i legit thought it was like a knockoff macos or something, genuinely the ugliest macos version and even in the brief time that i've used it, i've encountered annoying bugs, QC at apple is dead lowkey

dont__panic 20 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Unfortunately for Apple, Linux has not rotted the same way that macOS has. Will Linux win the desktop wars through attrition because it won't suffer the same enshittification as for-profit software?

If it wasn't for Apple Silicon and its stellar impact on battery life, I'd be gone. iOS 26 might make it happen anyway!

testing22321 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Thanks for the advise. I have not upgraded, and have no plan to.

j-krieger 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I had to upgrade my iPhone to iOS 26 to setup my watch. I wish I had never done it. Nothing is where it's supposed to be from a UI perspective. Stuff breaks often. I can't use my contact search bar to search contacts. It only searches past calls. What the hell.

jazzyjackson 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> "I wish I didn’t.”

Can't you do a factory reset/recovery on Mac that lands on the version of macos shipped with the device? Then you could re-upgrade to the os you wanted, without trying it it seems Sequoia is still available in the app store

trollbridge 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes, you can install any version of macOS that was ever supported for your Mac. (It’s been a long time since they used System Enablers.) I’m so frustrated with Tahoe that I’m about to do this.

larsmaxfield 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Safari can't be upgraded past a certain point on older versions of macOS. That can cause certain websites to break. Minor but annoying.

zapzupnz 2 hours ago | parent [-]

That's where the WebKit previews come in handy, if you stick to a preview version you know matches a stable version.

valleyer 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

But you cannot, in general, migrate your data backwards. Apple's system apps will upgrade their data stores forward only. This isn't a problem if you are willing to e.g. re-download all of your (Mail.app) mail.

ValentineC 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> But you cannot, in general, migrate your data backwards. Apple's system apps will upgrade their data stores forward only.

One huge reason to use third-party programs where possible. I dislike Apple's tight coupling of utilities as it is.

valleyer 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Yep, that's a great workaround, as long as you have third-party apps you're happy with.

xoa 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yep, though you can mitigate it a little bit in various ways. For one weird example, I keep my main user Home folder on my NAS and mount it via iSCSI. Mostly that's for data integrity/size/backup purposes, but it does also make it free to snapshot before trying out a system upgrade. If I hate it I can rollback my entire set of user data along with the OS.

Though amongst many other wonderful things lost in the mysts of Mac history I still desperately miss NetBoot/NetInstall and ultra easy clone/boot with something like CCC and TDM. It's so fucking miserable now in comparison to do reinstalls/testing/restores.

trollbridge 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I generally just “reload” everything.

layer8 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

At least on Windows 11 it’s possible to disable the rounded corners.

victor106 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I agree. I have been kind of an Apple fanboy but the Tahoe thing is one of the worst products to come out of the company. I really think people should be fired for releasing this.

This is akin to MobileMe -

https://www.cultofmac.com/apple-history/steve-jobs-mobileme-...

kaashif 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I switched from Windows 11 to macOS after a disastrous upgrade experience and drastic downgrade in performance on my Windows laptop.

I mean Windows 10 wasn't great but I got used to the taskbar searching the web somehow and the dual config menus everywhere and so on. But 11 was just terrible.

macOS has its pain points but man oh man what a disaster Windows is.

I have had Linux on my personal desktop and laptop forever so that hasn't been an issue, only used Windows for work.

mschuster91 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Tahoe is a macOS mis-step on par with Windows 8 or Windows Vista.

Other than that weird resize thing written about here (which I didn't notice, thanks SizeUp for providing me with hotkeys remarkably similar to Windows) - why? Vista and 8 were immediately obvious changes in the UI, but in general it still looks and feels just like macOS has for well over a decade now.

New icons, new fonts, but... that's it?

Oh and HyperSwitch for some reason can't switch to Finder windows any more, but that's probably because HyperSwitch hasn't seen an upgrade in years...

GrowingSideways 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Can you interpret this comment for those of us that haven't used windows? All i can recall from "vista" is that it looked good

dlivingston 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Microsoft's Copilot AI software has been integrated in every corner of the operating system, from the start menu to the notepad to settings. Beyond the intrusiveness of it, it also does not work very well. Other AI mishaps include Recall, which takes screenshots of your desktop every so often, and the original version of Recall stored these in an unencrypted, insecure database.

On top of that, the OS feels more bloated and disorganized than ever, with something like six different UI frameworks all present in various spots on the OS; system settings are scattered across the Settings app (new) and various legacy panels like Control Panel and Network Connections.

What else... Microsoft now requires an online connection and Microsoft account to sign in to your PC; no more local-only accounts allowed.

I'm sure there's more I'm missing. It's not a pleasant operating system.

Wistar 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I added a local-only account to a Win 11 Pro box just two days ago. Nothing seems different to me—the usual horsing around with the no online account stuff but it let me create the account.

esseph 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Pro will allow it. Home which is what comes with most computers, does not now.

timpera 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I find that it is quite a pleasant operating system!

Recall is turned off by default and Copilot never nags you to use it (like Gemini on Chromebooks/Google Search/Google Docs does).

I completely agree with the UI frameworks thing though. They really need to remove the Control Panel.

_carbyau_ 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> They really need to remove the Control Panel.

... they really need to provide 100% coverage to all the same settings, THEN remove the control panel.

p_ing 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't have Copilot in my start menu. It's in Notepad, but that is the only place I've found it. This is on 25H2.

> original version of Recall stored these in an unencrypted, insecure database.

Why do you bother mentioning it, given that's been long rectified and that particular version never made it to the production ring?

> six different UI frameworks all present in various spots on the OS

Windows has always been like this. It wasn't until Windows 11 that the Font dialog was upgraded from a Win 3.x look and feel.

> no more local-only accounts allowed.

Just false.

einr 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Off the top of my head: Windows Vista was slow and unstable on a lot of hardware of the time due to significantly higher system requirements than XP and a new display driver model that worked poorly at first, had a very polarizing look, and had quite overbearing UAC -- where XP would just let you do the thing, Vista would ask you three times if you're really really sure you wanted to authorize it.

It had decent bones though -- arguably a lot of its bad reputation was due to hardware/third party driver issues and people trying to run it on old hardware that just couldn't hack it. Windows 7 was well received and is basically the same thing with small improvements and some of the UX issues smoothed over (i.e. less annoying UAC)

overfeed 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Windows Vista was also notorious for going overboard with translucency effects in the default "Aero" style

xmddmx 4 hours ago | parent [-]

My memory is that it was named "Aero Glass" which heightens the irony of "Liquid Glass" sucking.

But I see many references to it being called just "Aero", but some call it "Aero Glass" [1]

Does anyone know the truth?

[1] https://www.pcmag.com/archive/rip-aero-glass-windows-8-stick...

overfeed 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Microsoft marketing maybhave had a specific preference, but "Aero" and "Aero Glass" are interchangeable. From the same article you linked:

> "Rest in peace, Aero. I liked you, a lot. Still do. And I'll miss you," Thurrott writes

Nextgrid 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The Vista comparison is unfair. I think a lot of the bad rap Vista got was from trying to run it on underpowered hardware thanks to marketing XP-era machines as "Windows Vista Capable". I actually ran it on good HW (the kind that could run Crysis) and I didn't have anything bad to say.

Yes, UAC could be considered as annoyance by some but it's no different than "sudo" on single-user Linux machines and we seemingly have no problems with that (I wish we'd move on past that because it is damn annoying and offers no security benefit).

Comparing Vista to modern macOS is insulting. Vista didn't have that level of jank and the UIs were actually quite good, consistent and with reasonable information density, unlike "System Settings" or shitty Catalyst apps.

dont__panic 18 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

It's even sadder. Apple has some of the best-performing CPUs on the market. And even with that kind of power under the hood, iOS, iPadOS, and macOS 26 chug and choke and drop frames. What the hell hardware did they target?

ziml77 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Yes, UAC could be considered as annoyance by some but it's no different than "sudo" on single-user Linux machines and we seemingly have no problems with that (I wish we'd move on past that because it is damn annoying and offers no security benefit).

It was wild to me when I was testing out if I wanted to move over to Linux as my full-time desktop OS how much it was asking for my password. And it didn't even have a mechanism to make it a little less painful such as requesting a short PIN (which I think is a fine option as long as a few incorrect PIN entries forces full password input).

smrq 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Give your user NOPASSWD if it's really that bothersome. You can also potentially set it up to use a fingerprint reader if you have that hardware.

realusername 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You had way more issues than that on launch, performance of 3d games sucked compared to XP with the same hardware (I remember at least a 30% decrease of FPS) and usb file transfers were so borked you probably had half of the speed of XP transfering on a usb key (which was the primary method of transfering files at the time).

The UAC wasn't even the main problem, the overall performance of Vista was, everything was so much slower.

Novosell 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Windows 8 was when Microsoft tried to cater more towards Windows-on-tablet use cases. Which lead to everyone, including desktop users, having a fullscreen phone-style app menu take the place of the old start menu. This, for desktop use, is obviously quite disruptive and was hated by everyone.

They addressed most issues in the 8.1 update, like a year later I think.

doubled112 5 hours ago | parent [-]

You know what was worse than desktop users? Server users via RDP.

There was no start button. There are no screen edges to swipe in from. Hot corners are really hard to hit. I still can't believe somebody said "yes, good idea" to using that UI for Server 2012.

Nextgrid 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I RDP'd into a Windows Server VM a year or so ago and got a full-screen popup for Edge or some shit like that.

If that wasn't bad enough, the popup was a web view, meaning none of RDP's acceleration/client-side compositing was in play and I was greeted with a ~1fps slideshow.

nntwozz 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Apple had one of the most successful and known ad campaigns "I'm a mac and I'm a PC" ridiculing Windows Vista, they pretty much summed it up in those.

Getting to Windows 11 today, they have ads in the Start menu. Not exactly appealing to the Apple crowd…

Gigachad 5 hours ago | parent [-]

They also ridiculed the permissions popups. But now when I plug my AirPods to charge on my MacBook it opens a permissions popup.

locusofself 3 hours ago | parent [-]

yet there is no way to get my iPhone to stop auto-switching bluetooth audio between my devices. Any time I get in my car, my headphones connect to the car and I have to switch it back. So annoying

nntwozz 9 minutes ago | parent [-]

This was added in iOS 26.

https://9to5mac.com/2025/12/08/ios-26-new-airpods-setting-ca...

In iOS 26, you can keep audio playing with your headphones by enabling the new "Keep Audio with Headphones" setting, found in Settings > General > AirPlay & Continuity, which stops audio from automatically switching to nearby devices like car stereos or Bluetooth speakers when you're already connected to your headphones.

This setting, which is off by default, ensures your music, calls, or podcasts stay with your AirPods or wireless headphones, preventing frustrating interruptions when you start your car or enter a room with another speaker.

ianbutler 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

MetroUI in Windows 8 was pretty universally panned. I thought it was pretty good on tablets and such, but it left a lot to be desired on desktops and hid a lot of functionality, it went too mobile for a lot of people's tastes.

Disclaimer: I was one of the dozens who used a windows phone. The Nokia Lumia 920 was great, you can fight me.

stevage 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I think a lot of people liked the Windows mobile experience. Shame it didn't quite get enough market share.

Nextgrid 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Resetting the app ecosystem 3 fucking times by breaking app compatibility didn't help. Windows Phone 7 - Windows Phone 8 -> Windows (Phone?) 10.

hyperrail 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Wrong. There was full app compat of WP7 apps in WP8 and Win10 Mobile, and for WP8 apps in W10M. The only full backward app compat break was from WM6.5/WP6.5 to WP7.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're thinking of the lack of device OS upgrades: from WP6.5 to WP7, from WP7 to WP8, and from older WP8 devices to W10M. So no forward compat, but absolutely yes to backward compat.

5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
ulbu 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

i guess they needed to release all that pent up backwards incompatibility

SuperNinKenDo 4 hours ago | parent [-]

You joke, but I honestly wonder if this period and projects didn't involve a bunch of Microsoft employees who got a little overexcited when they were told that they didn't need to maintain the insane, sometimes bug-for-bug, compatibility layers with 20-40 year old software that they had had to deal with their entire career there.

Must have felt incredibly liberating, and maybe they got a little too into the whole idea of "fresh start"(s).

See also Windows RT.

lunar_rover 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Vista had the right direction, Windows 7 merely continued on it and it became one of the best operating systems ever.

Windows 8 design wasn't bad per se, but they shipped the start screen when it lacks even the most basic features, so you'll return to legacy desktop the moment you want to do anything.

I don't think any of them are like Tahoe TBH.

its-summertime 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Windows 8 featured a notable paradigm shift from a menuing launcher (click start, programs, then the program you want, as an example), to a full screen launcher (Think Android and iOS). And also switched from floating windows (The default for most Linux distros and for Mac AFAIK) to rudimentary tiling windows (Think Android and iOS)

https://youtu.be/RuuqEZnvEoU?t=30

airstrike 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

from my own personal experience, Vista was very slow and buggy at launch, but it did get better over time

rayiner 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s such an utter piece of crap.

napierzaza 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]