Yes, but I'm talking about more then code review -- there is a ton of value in discovering all of the ways not to solve a problem. When reading 25 forum posts or whatever in trying to write some function, you're learning more then just the answer. You're picking up a ton of context about how these sorts of problems are solved. If all you're doing is reviewing the output of some code generator, your mental context is not growing in the same way.

Merely choosing lines to copy and paste from one file of your own code to another is a learning experience for your brain. AI is excellent for removing a lot of grunt work, but that type of work also reinforces your brain even if you think you are learning nothing. Something can still be lost even if AI is merely providing templates or scaffolding. The same can be said of using Google to find examples, though. You should try to come up with the correct function name or parameter list yourself in your head before using a search engine or AI. And that is for the moist simple examples, e.g. "SQL table creation example". These should be things we know off the top of our heads, so we should first try to type it out before we go to look for an answer.

> I use libraries

> I basically put LLM's into that category

That says a lot to be sure.

> Sure it gets you somewhere but you learned nothing in the way and now depend on the LLM to maintain it forever given you don't want to learn the skill.

The kind of person who would vibe code a bunch of stuff and push it with zero understanding of what it does or how it does it is the kind of person who’s going to ruin the project with garbage and technical debt anyway.

Using an LLM doesn’t mean you shouldn’t look at the results it produces. You should still check it results. You should correct it when it doesn’t meet your standards. You still need to understand it well enough to say “that seems right”. This isn’t about LLMs. This is just about basic care for quality.

But also, I personally don’t care about being an expert at every single thing. I think that is an unachievable dream, and a poor use of individual time and effort. I also pay people to do stuff like maintenance on my car and installing HVAC systems. I want things done well. That doesn’t mean I have to do them or even necessarily be an expert in them.

I notice this already after around of 6 months heavy usage. Skills decline, even information gathering etc

I agree with both of your points since I use LLMs for things I am not good at and dont give a single poop about. The only things i did with LLMs are three examples from the last two years:

- Some "temporary" tool I built years ago as a pareto-style workaround broke. (As temporary tools do after some years). Its basically a wrapper that calls a bunch of XSLs on a bmecat.xml every 3-6 months. I did not care to learn XSL back then and I dont care to do it now. Its arcane and non-universal - some stuff only works with certain XSL processors. I asked the LLM to fix stuff 20 times and eventually it got it. Probably got that stuff off my back another couple years.

- Some third party tool we use has a timer feature that has a bug where it sets a cookie everytime you see the timer once per timer (for whatever reason... the timers are set to end a certain time and there is no reason to attach it to a user). The cookies have a life time of one year. We run time limited promotions twice a week so that means two cookies a week for no reason. Eventually our WAF got triggered because it has a rule to block requests when headers are crazy long - which they were because cookies. I asked an LLM to give me a script that clears the cookie when its older than 7 days because I remember the last time i hacked together cookie stuff it also felt very "wtf" in a javascript kinda way and I did not care to relive that pain. This was in place until the third party tool fixed the cookie lifetime for some weeks.

- We list products on a marketplace. The marketplace has their own category system. We have our own category system. Frankly theirs kinda suck for our use case because it lumps a lot of stuff together, but we needed to "translate" the categories anyway. So I exported all unique "breadcrumbs" we have and gave that + the categories from the marketplace to an LLM one by one by looping through the list. I then had an apprentice from another dept. that has vastly more product knowledge than me look over that list in a day. Alternative would have been to have said apprentice do that stuff by hand, which is a task I would have personally HATED so I tried to lessen the burden for them.

All these examples are free tier in whatever I used.

We also use a vector search at work. 300,000 Products with weekly updates of the vector db.

We pay 250€ / mo for all of the qdrant instances across all environments and like 5-10 € in openai tokens. And we can easily switch whatever embedding model we use at anytime. We can even selfhost a model.

It's great when the terrain is unfamiliar to the user but extremely familiar to the LLM. And it's useless in the opposite.

The best programmers are going to be extremely familiar with terrains that are unfamiliar to the LLMs, which is why their views are so negative. These are people working on core parts of complex high performing highly scalable systems, and people with extreme appreciation for the craft of programming and code quality.

But the most productive developers focused on higher level user value and functionality (e.g pumping out full stack apps or features), are more likely to be working with commonly used technologies while also jumping around between technologies as a means to a functionality or UX objective rather than an end of skill development, elegant code, or satisfying curiosity.

I think this explains a lot of the difference in perspectives. LLMs offer value in the latter but not the former.

It's a shame that so many of the people in one context can't empathize with the people in the other.