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| ▲ | makeitdouble an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| > German podcast There was a Planet Money episode touching on Maritime law: https://www.npr.org/2025/10/17/nx-s1-5577076/shadow-fleet-ru... It was about Russian tankers breaking the sanctions, but with a well put explanation of why we can't just stop these ships even with extreme confidence in their fraudulency. |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | > why we can't just stop these ships To be clear, why we don’t want to. Freedom of navigation makes all of us tremendously richer, even if it permits such fuckery. Every great power has, at this point, rejected the notion in limited contexts. And if you’re not concerned about trashing trade, there is no incoherence to ignoring these rules. | | |
| ▲ | nradov 38 minutes ago | parent [-] | | In a hypothetical future where sailing under flags of convenience becomes untenable, all the legitimate merchant vessel owners would rush to register in the US or China. Those vessels would still be able to sail anywhere unmolested. Outside of a few pirate gangs, no one would be stupid enough to screw with them and risk kinetic retaliation. This might increase shipping costs by a few percent. Russia can bluster and threaten but their navy is weak and shrinking. Most of their commissioned warships never venture far from port. Outside of their territorial waters they have minimal capability to protect their own merchant vessels or interdict anyone else's sea lines of communication. | | |
| ▲ | MangoToupe 23 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > all the legitimate merchant vessel owners would rush to register in the US or China The US can't afford to field the navy necessary to back this ams hasn't been able to for many decades | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 3 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > US can't afford to field the navy necessary to back this ams hasn't been able to for many decades This is nonsense. The U.S. Navy de facto guarantees freedom of navigation today. Globally. If we switched to a national system, the Navy wouldn’t need to literally escort U.S.-flagged ships. Its military would just need to enforce the threat that you get bombed if you fuck with America. We’d save money switching to a big-stick model. |
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| ▲ | m0llusk an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | As we are seeing, "can't" is a really strong word. | | |
| ▲ | makeitdouble 35 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Yes. I meant it more as "can't _just_", we can do it but need to account for serious ramifications in doing so at scale. |
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| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > (German) podcast about international maritime law Russia isn’t even pretending to follow international maritime law. China hasn’t for a decade. And now America is being creative with its interpretations. |
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| ▲ | m4rtink 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Still I don't see an issue - basically you either pay the armed coast gard cutter that stands in your way or you don't go through the straight. If you don't cause any trouble, the other cutter on the other end will pay you back. No money, no transit - unless you really like being boarded. |
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| ▲ | nradov 3 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Regardless of what specific rules could be set you have to consider rules of engagement and potential escalation. What happens if a Russian merchant vessel (either legitimately flagged or shadow fleet) refuses to cooperate? Do you use force to stop them? What if they're being escorted by a Russian warship or combat aircraft? |
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| ▲ | jopsen 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Most of the water isn't internal.. getting in and out of the baltic sea goes past Sweden/Denmark. But we probably have promised not to blockade ships in some conventions. And little Denmark (or Sweden) do not benefit from setting a precedence that conventions can be broken. Getting payback is easy though: support Ukraine. |
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| ▲ | bena 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| The Outlaw Sea, https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780865477223/theoutlawsea/ , is a book about all of the ways international water is essentially lawless. |
