> Most people switch browsers for one reason: speed.

Is that true? Maybe it is and I'm out of the loop but I can't remember the last time someone complained about browser speed. The bottleneck seems to be website bloat more than anything else. Would love to see this argument quantified.

I love Orion, but it's pretty unusable with 1Password set up - delay on keyboard input is unbearable with the extension enabled and it slows everything down significantly. I just ran a few benchmarks with BrowserBench Speedometer:

1Password extension disabled: 17

1Password extension enabled: 10 (and the test takes much longer)

Vivaldi with extension enabled: 25

I really, really want to move back to Orion as my daily driver but as a pretty heavy 1Password user this is absolutely a dealbreaker.

Thank you offering Orion outside the App Store. I am excited to try it. But where is the offline installer? If you don't collect data, why does the "installer", that has already been downloaded from the internet, need to again connect to the internet to download the browser, which is what the "installer" should already be having within it??

I like the direction and keep checking in on it, but while Orion remains closed source there's no chance of it ever being more than a curiosity for me.

What's the bug situation? It sucked last I checked, over a year ago.

Is there a way to get a useful visualization like a burndown chart out of their bug tracker? The people who have created it seem unaware that one important task of such a tracker is to reveal the big picture and help answer questions like "Is the project getting better or worse?" They should study the Github Insights tab. https://orionfeedback.org/

Money quote: "In a world dominated by Chromium, choosing a rendering engine is an act of resistance"

Remember around the early 2000s, every company had a toolbar you could install in your browser? They’d do search, news, IM, plugins, all kinds of things… on many occasions they’d try to squeeze entire websites into these things. You could install more than one toolbar. Some were malware, but there were toolbars that promised security and privacy too (though probably still malware by today’s standards).

Well, if you’ve seen one of those screenshots where 80% of the screen was toolbars and only a fraction left for the viewport … that’s a bit how I feel now when I look at the landscape of browsers today.

Browsers… everywhere, each one trying to grab your attention long enough so you give them clicks, cookies, “anonymised” search queries and who knows what else…

There are no more browsers that fight for the user.

I've been mainlining Orion on my iOS devices for a while now, over a year. Certainly have some issues here and there but overall it's been a solid experience for me, glad to see this hit 1.0. Congrats to the Orion team!

My favorite feature by far is the ability to disable the stupid "hide the address bar if you're not scrolled all the way to the top of a page" behavior every mobile browser does.

I want to be able to sync Orion with Firefox. I use non Apple operating systems on some computers, and I would love to have Orion sync with Firefox on them.

I love everything about Orion except it steals focus when I click a link in e-mail or another application. Does anyone know if there's a way to change the behavior to be like Safari's background link behavior?

Orion for Linux and windows is actually a huge thing. I'm sick of having to choose between chromium clone and gecko clone, I find WebKit to be very efficient and Orion on my Mac was very good.

The only reason I didn't use it is because safari, I already paid for all the extension i need and I found safari to be better on iphone. But compared to Firefox or chrome, this is so much better.

So, the blog post says:

   > Because something fundamental has been lost.
   > Zero telemetry, privacy‑first access to the internet: a basic human right.
   > We believe there needs to be a different path: a browser that answers only to its user.

Disable Daily Ping and Crash Reports in Firefox Focus and you too have a telemetry-free browser on iOS.

Meanwhile on macOS you have Mullvad Browser.

The floating sidebar totally breaks UI\UX on any web site with a header.

And I still can't select multiple tabs with shift\cmd\whatever button pressed down to do something with a group of tabs instead of a single one.

And a feel no difference in speed on my M1 Pro.

For now this 1.0 feels just as beta as it was.

I've attempted to switch to Orion on iOS a few times in the past and could never quite stick with it due to reliability issues. I'm giving it another try now to see if this 1.0 release gets it over that hurdle. Vivaldi is still a lot more polished than Orion on mobile, but Orion's support for Chrome extensions is a pretty compelling feature. I'm a very happy Kagi search user, so I'm rooting for them to succeed here.

> After six years of relentless development

if it took 6 years of bug fixing to release version 1.0 I'm sure there are still innumerable bugs in orion

This looks neat but the biggest question I have and care about... UBO? Not the limited manifest v3 version or whatever it's referred to as, but the full bore block lists like in FF.

Excited to see where this goes!!

I switched to Orion from Safari a few months ago and so far loving it. I tried Orion a couple of years ago but it wasn't as reliable. Now it seems very stable and the kagi search integration is really nice.

On a side note - I don't know why Apple still doesn't let you set a custom search engine in Safari even today, so random.

Really liked orion when trying it out but extensions that changed the theme (namely using dark mode with RES) flashed the original theme first, so I was getting flash banged any time I changed the page.

There was a bug[0] for this that was marked as done but I tried after the fact and it was still happening. And looking at the comments on that report suggest I am not the only one still experiencing it.

If it weren’t for that I would probably be using it as my daily browser.

[0] https://orionfeedback.org/d/324-dark-reader-has-a-slightly-d...

Isn't every browser on iOS restricted to being a safari/webview shell?

Is there any info with a bit more details on extensions on the desktop version? More specifically, is Orion going to have its own extension ecosystem? Is it compatible with chrome or FF extensions? If it is gonna be its own thing, are there dev docs available anywhere?

Asking because I’ve read the article, and I noticed extensions being mentioned a few times (including in one of the subchapter titles). However, I couldn’t find any actual info about extensions there.

I love Orion on iOS especially because the ability to use desktop extensions in it (some may not work)

Reportedly, current desktop OS marketshare[1] is:

- 66% Windows

- 18% MacOS

- 3% Linux

Right now, I can't try out Orion as one of the 66%.

[1] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide...

I switched my mobile browser to Orion a few weeks ago and it's so great to have built-in support for Kagi. Before, I'd have to manually go to the Kagi page when I wanted to search for something since Safari doesn't support custom search engines.

Currently looking to switch from Arc to Orion. The one thing I'm gonna miss is Arc's Portrait Mode.

my initial, 15min impression is.. wow so much to like here! It feels very snappy, really nice UI, supports "real" version of uBlock Origin, has built-in Vertical Tabs with nesting and Tab Groups, and also the iOS-like grid of tabs if you prefer.

What I don't like: Seems like no way to disable two-finger back/forward gesture? I hate that one and managed to disable a similar feature in Chrome. Also either it doesn't have any kind of Developer Tools, or I couldn't find it yet in my 15min speedrun. (edit: found it)

I'm hopeful.

”We have officially started development on Orion for Windows, with a target release scheduled for late 2026”

Fantastic news!

Begun again the browser wars have.

Downloaded the dmg/installer (not from the App Store), launched it and I get

  Update Error!

  An error occurred while parsing the update feed.

  [ Cancel Update ]

Maybe it's related to PiHole? I'm on MacOS 26.1

I will give this another chance but the last time I used this on my 14 Pro Max it would get hot to the edge of discomfort

I love Kagi, but is this necessary? Another browser, really?

I wish they'd spend their eng resources as a small startup on their legitimately great primary product - ad-free search.

I'd love to use Orion but it's just too buggy for me. I downloaded the iOS app to try it out and immediately noticed that when typing in the URL bar, three quarters of it is covered by the toolbar above the keyboard.

I used it on and off many times. I think the main reason has always been able to run extensions in “safari”. Can’t remember what made me switch back, probably integration, or not having Linux versions? I’ll give it another try!

As of Tuesday 6:33 PM UTC, it shows the error: Update Error! An error occurred in retrieving update information. Please try again later.

I hope I don't come across too harsh in my criticism here, but this is in my wheelhouse and I like to keep tabs on the privacy browser market in comparison to Waterfox.

> A bold technical choice: WebKit, not another Chromium clone

I don't find this a bold technical choice at all for a macOS only browser? I think this would be more impressive if it was Windows as well, as back (maybe ~5 or so years ago) when I was investigating WebKit on Windows, builds were not on an equal playing field[1]. So the engineering to get that up and running would be impressive.

> Speed by nature

Unfortunately, as of 16:40 UTC, I am unable to run the browser (installer?) to benchmark it due to "An error occurred while parsing the update feed.", but I recall 2 years ago when I tested Orion it was the slowest of all the browsers on macOS and Safari had quite a lead. I'd also be curious, being based on WebKit, how much faster it will actually be on macOS vs Safari?

I dropped speed as a focus point on Waterfox after compilation flags started making less of a difference compared to the actual architectural changes Mozilla were making for Firefox.

> Privacy etc

I think comparing to other major browsers such as Chrome the points are valid, but against Safari I'm not convinced it holds up as much. I know there is some telemetry related to Safari, but privacy is a big selling point for Safari as well and I'd be curious to see actual comparisons to that?

Safari includes iCloud Privacy Relay (MPR based on MASQUE[2]) and Oblivious DNS[3] - arguably two very valuable features that a company at a scale like Apple can subsidise.

The entire AI section also feels like trying to have it both ways as well. They criticise other browsers for rushing AI features, position themselves as the "secure" alternative, then immediately say they'll integrate AI "as it matures." This reads more like "we're behind on AI features" than a principled stance. If security is the concern, explain your threat model and what specific architectural decisions you're making differently? Currently Firefox has kept AI out of the "browser core" as it's been put, and I don't see them ever changing that.

Kudos that they have >2000 people paying for the browser directly, but I will say it doesn't excite me to see another closed source browser entering the market (I don't see any mention here of open-source apart from mention of WebKit being open source).

I do realise this is more a marketing post than an actual technical deep dive, but so much is just a rehash of every feature almost every modern web browser has?

I'll keep updating this comment as and when I can explore the browser itself a bit more.

[1] https://fujii.github.io/2019/07/05/webkit-on-windows/

[2] https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/masque/about/

[3] https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3340301.3341128

Rooting for them. I, myself, continue to use Safari.

Wake me when it's available for Linux.

>While doing so, it expands Kagi ecosystem of privacy-respecting, user-centric products (that we have begun fondly naming “Kagiverse”) to now include: Search, Assistant, Browser, Translate, News with more to come.

Are people really interested in those other than Search?

>A bold technical choice: WebKit, not another Chromium clone

Only real choice for iOS so not sure what the bold choice is for an Apple-centric browser.

I’m using it now, feels so much snappier on my 10 year old iPhone than the previous version on Orion.

I’m going to use it on iOS and macOS. Feels like the previous Safari.

On Linux I’ll keep to Firefox.

Mm maybe hugged to death getting an error on startup

Update Error! An error occurred while parsing the update feed.

I'm a keen Orion user, and general Kagi user - early adopter since June 2022 (So kool-aid? ;-) ) That said, I have Chrome installed for mandated office work (profile managed by IT ;-( ), Brave for LinkedIn & YouTube... but for everything else I use Orion. Recent versions have been rock solid, and it does exactly what it says on the tin.

My only gripe is that the favourites bar isn't right-click editable like Chrome or Brave - assume this is down to Webkit. Apart from that, joy to use and develop against.

For macOS.

I was curious but unfortunately can't get it to launch

Its not a new browser, its a new webengine wrapper?

I really love to hate Safari (extensions, ad blocking, dev tools amongst many other reasons) but love using a non chromium browser.

I discovered Orion a few years back and it has been my go-to standalone browser but never strong enough to be my primary browser.

So many daily drivers of mine refuse(d) to work from time to time (1P, Netflix, Youtube, Slack, Gmaps, Hey & the list goes on). I eventually started relying on Orion RC instead of Orion to band-aid fix these problems.

I truly hope they succeed but a few hours of driving the 1.0, it doesn't feel like a 1.0 yet.

Love most of the work you folks are doing, and I am a paying Kagi customer for over a year now.

That said, it leaves a salty taste in the mouth to see

> Orion is part of the broader Kagi ecosystem

and

> Supporters (via subscription or lifetime purchase) unlock a set of Orion+ perks

I would imagine that paying for Kagi is also a vector for having the paywalled features of your browser.

I still use Safari as my primary browser as the integration with passwords is so seamless, but I pay for Orion because I want it to succeed.

Is this Webkit 2?

I’m now using it on iOS, switching from Arc. It’s working surprisingly well, good feel and customization. Might keep it.

The iOS/iPad builds have been getting a bit… rough on their adblocking lately.

For some reason, Orion is now getting slammed by Ad-Shield on my iPad on so many blogs and sites it’s not even funny. Endless “an error occured loading this page” blaming my ad blocker.

Anyone else?

Just skip the middleman and use Yandex browser.