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have_faith 8 hours ago

> Most people switch browsers for one reason: speed.

Is that true? Maybe it is and I'm out of the loop but I can't remember the last time someone complained about browser speed. The bottleneck seems to be website bloat more than anything else. Would love to see this argument quantified.

butz 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Nowadays users switch browsers to escape from AI nonsense. But in all seriousness, just enabling an ad-blocker significantly increases the speed of the browser, because, as you correctly noticed, website bloat is the largest bottleneck. And usually "raw" website content is only small fraction of all other stuff that gets loaded from various remote sources to show you ads and track you better. And to take speed point even further - disabling JavaScript does wonders to website speeds, you won't believe how quickly some websites are loading. Logging in to banking website might not work at all, though.

hbn 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I've been playing Dragon Age Origins recently, and I've been popping into the Steam overlay browser to look up some stuff, which frequently leads me to the wiki. And oh my god, I can't believe how bad the internet is without adblock these days. Every page visit, it pops up ginormous video ads that cover 90% of the web page, and it needs to chug along to get the initial render done before I can collapse it.

yannickburky 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Orion already weighs 100 MB less than Chrome. You will probably already feel this difference every time you launch it.

traceroute66 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> You will probably already feel this difference every time you launch it.

How many times a day / week / month do you launch your browser from scratch ?

It is also a moot point with modern processors and modern OSs.

Even more so in Orion's target macOS market where you can leave an app open without any windows open (not minimized, I mean not open at all) , so its ready to go at a click.

cricalix 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> How many times a day / week / month do you launch your browser from scratch ?

Every morning / day across multiple machines. I don't leave them sleeping or hibernated.

Don't think I'd notice a slightly faster browser start; a 50% faster start would be nice though.

sedatk 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It was true, and it was what made Google Chrome popular in the first place. Internet Explorer and Firefox were dead slow to start at the time while Chrome started instantly.

We just don’t know how bad slow browsers can be because all others have caught up.

eddythompson80 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That was a funny period of time because you could very transparently see the clear application of a corporate team that was tasked with improving the “startup speed KPI”.

During that time IE startup time went from a dozen or so seconds to also instantaneous. It was even faster than chrome sometimes. But that was just the startup. The application wasn’t ready to accept any user input or load anything for another 10 or 15 seconds still. Sometimes it would even accept input for a second then block the input fields again.

It’s the same mentality all those insanely slow webapps do when they think some core react feature for a “initial render” or splash screen etc will save them from their horrific engineering practices.

sedatk 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Google did a great job communicating Chrome's improvements over speed (both with startup and prefetch) and reliability (isolated and sandboxed tabs) during its launch. When you saw it, you knew that it was basically game over for any browser that had chosen to stagnate until then. They destroyed the competition.

GeekyBear 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

At the time, the argument for Chrome was that Firefox and IE were bloated and their memory requirements were too high.

A system with less than 64 Megabytes of RAM (most computers of the time) would have to lean heavily on spinning rust virtual memory, making everything slow.

However, since then Chrome has become one of the biggest memory hogs that people commonly run.

kwanbix 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Chrome was launched in 2008. At that time it was commmon to have 2~4GB of RAM.

Windows Vista, for example, required 512MB but really needed 1GB or more to work.

A year latter, in 2009, Windows 7 was launched, it required 1GB at minimum, but really needed 4GB or more.

sedatk 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't think lean memory use was the biggest claim Chrome had made. That was the game between IE and Firefox. Google had specifically promoted faster startup times, faster web browsing experience, and tab isolation / sandboxing so a crashing tab wouldn't bring down other tabs with it.

7bit 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Ouch. When computers had 64 MB of RAM, Firefox did not even exist yet.

zipping1549 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Unless it's ungodly slow, to the point where it's beyond being noticeable, speed is the last thing I care about when it comes to browser. Most of the options available are reasonably fast and differences are not huge enough.

wyldberry 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Gentle reminder that if you're commenting on hacker news articles you are likely the outlier in the "why people switch browsers" reasoning. Friends and family constantly surprise me with their tech choices and how they interface with the digital world whenever I'm home on holidays.

d1sxeyes 6 hours ago | parent [-]

“My friend told me Chrome was faster”

freeandclear an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It is definitely the features that draw me to trying new browsers. The difference in a few milliseconds is not a big deal to me.

rock_artist 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wouldn't say it's only speed. I've been Firefox for years, but eventually ended up surrendering Apple eco-system. with Apple silicon, Firefox at least then wasn't sleeping that well, and the tab sync of FF between my devices was also less than I've desired.

So performance is general is more like it... that includes not hurting my battery life.

dmix an hour ago | parent [-]

I've used all 3 browsers (chrome/safari/ff) daily doing web dev for years now and I'm convinced Safari just feels faster as a cohesive Mac app, with the animations and what not, but isn't in general when using the internet day-to-day. FF is little different than Chrome/Safari.

Also as a dev Safari is becoming the new IE. I've had a whole suite of Safari-only bugs in the past 2yrs and lots of browser crash reports from users.

handsclean 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It was the primary motivating factor behind the previous major browser shift, though there were also other large factors.

Remember that users often don’t correctly figure out which part of the stack is causing something. I’m guessing people generally don’t ID the browser as the performance bottleneck unless they’re familiar with browsers of significantly differing speed, and when not it comes out as asking for faster internet, faster websites, or a faster computer, all of which we hear constantly.

freehorse 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have definitely switched in iOS to orion for the support of firefox and chrome extensions. Have not the slightest idea how different browsers in mobile compare in speed. But if it was abysmally slow I would have had seconds thoughts about it probably.

TingPing 3 hours ago | parent [-]

On iOS its all WebKit anyway (for most regions).

whazor 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Website bloat also slows you down cognitively, not just in load time.

Tagbert 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

From my perspective, all browsers are fast enough and within a couple of percent the same performance. I value features, privacy, etc. More than raw speed.

eviks 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Browsers are slow to startup, that's a common complaint for various browser-based apps, you must've heard that?

embedding-shape 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Applications that use browser engines for rendering tend to be a bit sluggy compared to native applications, yes. But I don't think a common complaint is that a web browser as a standalone application is particularly slow either running or starting up. People tend to say stuff gets slow once they have a ton of tabs open, which makes sense.

eviks 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Don't know how common it is, after all, people are used to all the slow stuff out there, maybe they don't even complaint when it's less frequent actions like opening a browser. Though at least for a ton of tabs, there are hibernating solutions, so very annoyed people can at least find a workaround, unlike with the unfixable startup delay

esafak 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It is. That's why I dropped Firefox.

ivell 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Have you tried it out recently? On Mac and Android it is now very good.

It used to be slow for me, but now on the same hardware it is fast enough that I don't see any difference compared to chrome.

seplox 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Recently as in the last 8 years when they overhauled it. It really was slow as heck back in 2016, but the e10s effort really, really paid off in terms of performance.

It runs noticeably faster than chrome on my 12 year old laptop. Plus, it isn't riddled with invasive tracking garbage.

hedora 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Even before then, 99% of the difference came down to whether chrome and firefox were properly using gpu acceleration. (Both could be easily misconfigured.)

I never saw a situation where the actual engine performance mattered in real world scenarios.

These days, all the engines are comparable, except that Google sabotages safari and firefox on its own sites.

esafak 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It was definitely slower than Chrome with numerous tabs when I switched (again) some time in the last two years.

mhitza 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Brave is still faster on Android. It probably helps that it has adblocking built-in, instead of a separate extension.

NaomiLehman 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

i definitely feel that notion and google ai studio are lagging on firefox and not on chrome.

I'm on a mac if that matters

NaomiLehman 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I switched from Firefox to Chromium because of speed.

nxpnsv 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I switched to zen browser. It was not for speed but feel. It feels nice.