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creaturemachine 10 hours ago

Ever since the iphone apple has been trying to make you believe files aren't a thing.

rpdillon 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The file system is the ultimate API, and it gives the user an enormous amount of control to take data, copy it, back it up, transform it, encrypt it, send it places, restore it, etc.

Apple likes to have far more control than that.

raw_anon_1111 an hour ago | parent [-]

You realize that you can copy files gl and from other providers like Google Drive, Dropbox etc from the files app on iOS just like you do on any GUI and you can also copy files from the iPhone by just plugging in a USB C mass storage device?

Angostura 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Because Apple realised that phone users are interested in photos, videos, contacts, documents, appointments etc. not files

tuetuopay 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Despite others thinking you’re crazy, I think you are right. I remember the start of the smartphone era where many of my relatives switched to iPhone because "you know where the pictures are going and where to find them". The worst offender was my dad that had a Samsung phone running windows phone 6 (with an actual start menu) where you had to dig through folders to find jpeg files.

Gigachad 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Desktop OSs are the worst for mixing random system files with the users own documents. Theres a better balance now where the “Files” app has your documents, downloaded stuff and similar, while system and app data is hidden.

pxc an hour ago | parent [-]

Isn't that pretty much just Windows? That basically never occurs on Linux and it's not common on macOS, either. All the garbage I have on my work computer (a Mac) in ~/Documents is stuff that OneDrive synced over from when I used to have a Windows computer there. (If I could turn the OneDrive feature that takes over ~/Documents and ~/Downloads, I would.)

SchemaLoad 11 minutes ago | parent [-]

Linux software is notorious for spewing crap all over the user's home directory. Delete everything inside your /home/name and see how well the system still works. On iOS/iPadOS nothing happens other than not having the documents you saved in there.

I'm not sure there even is a good place where programs can store their internal system files without requiring root other than mixed in with the user Home.

standardUser 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But what they own is files. Most users aren't interested in mutual funds, but that doesn't mean they don't want them in their retirement portfolio.

Gud 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And files…

babypuncher 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A file system and its files are a very simple abstraction that lets us organize these exact things.

I understand that some people get confused and overwhelmed by a directory structure, but I see that as an education problem, not a UX problem. I was taught all of this in elementary and middle school computer classes in the '90s and early '00s. Having this knowledge early on made me less afraid of my computer, made it feel less like a magical black box, and gave me the confidence to learn more complex topics on my own.

Computers become way more capable when the people using them understand fundamentals like directory structures and command line usage. I don't think either of these things are as difficult to learn as reading, writing, and arithmetic (especially if you already have a base level education in those three things).

If more "everyday people" just had a little bit more knowledge about these things, they would be able to do way more with their computers with less of a reliance on proprietary solutions that funnel them down whatever path makes someone else the most money.

8note 8 hours ago | parent [-]

its a UX probpem insofar as service providers will decide that since they give you a view over the file system, thats enough.

i want file system access, but as a power tool. the 50 clicks through different folders is irrelevant to my most common 5 patterns of use. those should be a single click, or 0 clicks

kakacik 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

One reason I'll never own an apple device, and prefer buying more expensive more open competition. Its just a red line - I own the device by law, if you bend backwards to prevent me from using it via ways that it supports by principle, your product doesn't exist for me.

vovavili 4 hours ago | parent [-]

You are not Apple's target audience, and there is nothing wrong with that.

digdugdirk 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

... This is a joke... Right?

supertrope 9 hours ago | parent [-]

"Dad, download the PDF and then email it to me."

"The file disappeared. I can't find it."

"Look in the download folder."

"How do I get to that?"

wkat4242 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

iOS isn't just a phone OS.

1-more 9 hours ago | parent [-]

It is. The other OSes have different names.

iknowstuff 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Only so they could pretend that iPhones and iPadas are separate platforms under DMA

Marsymars 8 hours ago | parent [-]

I generally agree that iOS/iPadOS aren't two different operating systems, but "iPadOS" predates the DMA.

giobox 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Barely... the iPadOS brand was introduced in 2019, the European Commission proposed the DMA in 2020, and even prior to this there were obvious noises being made in Europe with regards to future regulation. Maybe its coincidence, but the timing still lines up for this being a response to the threat of EU changes.

raw_anon_1111 an hour ago | parent [-]

So Apple preemptively split the names because they knew exactly how the unreleased DMA was going to affect them?

tgma 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Steve Jobs, 2007: "iPhone runs OS X"

1-more 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

lots of things have happened since then.

kube-system 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

And it indeed was running a fork of OSX… which was later renamed.

raw_anon_1111 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes - it’s not like they have had a literal app called “Files” since 2017 and if you install apps like Dropbox, OneDrive, Google Drive etc they all show up in the Files app and are choosable destinations from any app that uses the Files dialog…

sussmannbaka 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Im not sure if Android has caught up but the iOS file explorer app is excellent.

stavros 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Saying "I'm not sure if Android has caught up" when Android is decades ahead of Apple in that regard is some kind of... something.

sussmannbaka 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Certainly wasn’t ahead with the stock file manager that came with my last Android phone.

stavros 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What about after you spent the two seconds to install a different file manager?

sussmannbaka 9 hours ago | parent [-]

Ghost Commander was better but I think I still prefer the iOS Files app.

DANmode 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Your Samsung or whatever manufacturer bloated trash ≠ Android.

sussmannbaka 9 hours ago | parent [-]

I used the AOSP app I think? I’d usually agree with you but in this case I really wanted some more bloat because that one was dire :)

esseph an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

That also could have been from the phone manufacturer OR from the carrier.

This is why I've avoided non Pixel phones since the Pixel5 came out. None of that 2 or 3 apps for the same thing so everybody can get their ad cut payout.

BoredPositron 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Still no smb/webdav/sftp somehow...

DANmode 9 hours ago | parent [-]

https://sites.google.com/site/ghostcommander1

esseph 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Was the list time you had an Android pre-2017?

It was around that time it (Files app) got a major refresh.

rcMgD2BwE72F 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Try connecting to a WebDAV server on File. It's possible but it's shitty. And try using Syncthing on iOS to keep your files synced across devices without having them uploaded to servers you don't control.

Also, on Android, you can choose any file explorer. You're stuck with Files and it sucks (but it looks nice).

raw_anon_1111 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

The difference is that the Files app works with third party cloud storage providers.

sussmannbaka 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don’t have one of those! I do have an SMB share mounted that I’m currently playing music from, though, and it’s working perfectly fine.

bigyabai 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm pretty sure that iOS only has a file explorer app because Android supported it.

There was almost a whole decade there where Apple pretended that the feature just didn't need to exist.

kevin_thibedeau 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

To be fair, Android lacked a stock file browser for much of its existence.

stavros 10 hours ago | parent [-]

The difference is that iOS still doesn't show you the files on your device. It only shows you files in a small area.

wkat4242 10 hours ago | parent [-]

I love Android but Android does that too. Apps have their internal storage area which you can't access unfortunately (not without root anyway). Nor system files.

TheGoddessInari 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There's a difference between "can't see 'special' folders" & "can't access anything but the app-specific storage". iOS loves the latter, while Android lets you organize files mostly normally even if doing highly stupid/discouraging things for power users & some app developers making questionable non-default choices.

sussmannbaka 9 hours ago | parent [-]

While I bet there’s some technicality I’ll get gotcha’d on, iOS apps do the exact same nowadays.

bigyabai 7 hours ago | parent [-]

iOS apps didn't, for the majority of the iPhone's lifespan. I explained this "technicality" upthread:

> There was almost a whole decade there where Apple pretended that the feature just didn't need to exist.

sussmannbaka 6 hours ago | parent [-]

The history lesson is appreciated but how does this relate to the current state of the stock file explorer that ships with the OS? I’m using my phone now and not ten years ago.

edit: oh, I think I get it. My original post wasn't intended to be read "iOS invented the file explorer, has Android also a file explorer app" (which would be silly, of course) but "when Files app released, the AOSP file explorer that commonly ships as the default was lacking, has this improved (caught up to Files app)"

stavros 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

When I had an iPhone (a few months ago), there was no way for apps to see files in the filesystem. I wanted to play some music and I had to copy it over to each of the music player apps separately. Is that not the case any more?

badc0ffee 9 hours ago | parent | next [-]

VLC for iOS uses the filesystem. You can add files with Finder (newer macOS), iTunes (older macOS), or the Files app on the phone.

You are correct that each app can only see a specific part of the filesystem, unless the apps are by the same developer and part of an App Group.

sussmannbaka 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That’s entirely up to the app developer. Of course apps can see files if they’re developed to do that.

sussmannbaka 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Am I supposed to be mad about them not supporting a feature during a time when I didn’t use iOS or is this somehow supposed to impact my current day use of Files app?

creaturemachine 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Remember folks, the iphone was released in 2007, and the files app in 2017. Cut & paste? Apple didn't give ios a clipboard until 2021.

joshstrange 9 hours ago | parent [-]

> Apple didn't give ios a clipboard until 2021.

Apple added copy/paste in iOS 3.0 in 2009

Gigachad 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They have rolled it back over the years. Theres a full files app now, USBs can be easily plugged in to the iPhone, every app that allows exporting allows saving to the files section, etc.

recursive 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It goes farther than that. It dates back to at least iPod and iTunes library synchronizing.

nosrepa 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What's a computer?

crooked-v 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They did a pretty hard reverse on that. There's now a full Files app with integration with other apps (cloud storage, asset managers like Adobe, terminals for SSH transfers, etc). Unfortunately a lot of apps have never caught up and will only save stuff in the pre-Files sandboxes and not the shared local or cloud containers.

raw_anon_1111 an hour ago | parent [-]

Which apps?

MangoToupe 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Ios has an app called "Files".

Now "bluetooth" I could buy (and I do not miss at all).