| ▲ | userbinator 6 days ago |
| dual-pane file manager For some reason, the technical term for these is Orthodox File Manager, which I've always thought was an obscure cultural in-joke from the countries where these were most popular --- Eastern Europe and the former USSR. This origin is elaborated at length here: https://softpanorama.org/Articles/introduction_to_orthodox_f... |
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| ▲ | kqr 6 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| The "orthodox" comes from a specific type of GUI, namely one that is driven by commands under the hood. UI elements are merely used to trigger commands that have the actual effect, and these commands could just as well be executed by hand, or automated into more complex commands. This is an excellent way to build powerful UIs. It is what drives things like Vim, and often why Lisp-based software is so hackable -- think Emacs, StumpWM, etc. Instead of writing plugins against some small plugin API, you're wiring new functionality directly into the application. The article you reference goes into more detail, as you say. |
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| ▲ | kiliankoe 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Does Blender also qualify? It even shows you the name of the Python function behind each UI element on hover, which is great for discoverability when scripting. Or maybe it used to, can't see it now. | | | |
| ▲ | Levitating 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Similar to the ELM architecture in a way? Except that the commands are literal commands that can be executed outside of the standard UI interaction. | |
| ▲ | faangguyindia 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Isn't this what tools like lazygit use? |
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| ▲ | Klaster_1 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| At least in Russia, "orthodox" has an extra connotation that's not strictly coupled to church, akin more to "one true way", as in "orthodox way to learn a tech stack". With a negation, it becomes something like "wrong" or even "heretical", as in "pizza with pineapple". |
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| ▲ | andrewshadura 6 days ago | parent | next [-] | | What you're describing is the meaning of the word in English. I suspect using the word православный with this meaning started as a joke transplanting the English meaning of the word onto the corresponding Russian word. | | |
| ▲ | rob74 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Actually, it's the meaning of the word in Greek: > "what is regarded as true or correct," from Late Latin orthodoxus, from Greek orthodoxos "having the right opinion," from orthos "right, true, straight" + doxa "opinion, praise". (https://www.etymonline.com/word/orthodox) But, when referring to dual-pane file managers, it's probably a mix of both meanings ("one true way" and "old-fashioned"). | |
| ▲ | kgeist 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | "Orthodox" in Russian is "pravoslavny", literally "right faith" (pravyj = right, correct). I think it also contributes to the meaning. "The right way". | | |
| ▲ | blks 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes and no. Orthodox church is called “православная церковь”, yes, but the word “ортодоксальный” still exists to describe e.g. orthodox jews. The word “православный” in a meaning of some object/technology/way being good and true only started being used in Internet culture during 00s, and it still used, but as a slang/joke. | |
| ▲ | rusk 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Means the same thing in Ireland too! My understanding is it derives from greek for “ordinary teaching” we also use the term heterodox for a cultural setting that encourages different types of thought. The term Paradox is a challenging or somewhat contradictory idea. We also use the term orthodox for a right handed boxer. “Southpaw” is non-orthodox left handed. | | |
| ▲ | gschizas 6 days ago | parent [-] | | Greek here: Orthodox = orthos + doxasia Orthos = straight/correct Doxasia = belief orthodoxos = correct belief |
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| ▲ | abcd_f 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is incorrect. Ортодоксальный doesn't carry these connotations at all. If anything, it describes something that is stuck in old ways and/or pointlessly rigid. | | |
| ▲ | bee_rider 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I find this whole thread a bit confusing—the comment two up describes “orthodox” meaning one-true-way as a Russian thing, but this is also part of the connotation in English. You describe it as not having this “one true way” connotation, but as having this pointlessly rigid connotation. In English, I think it has both connotations. Although, almost any phrase which has an implication of “one true way” can end up with a double meaning of “pointlessly rigid,” right? (It is context dependent, of course). | |
| ▲ | iamnotagenius 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | православный is used in jargon for exactly that meaning. source: 45 years of native Russian speaking. | | |
| ▲ | abcd_f 3 days ago | parent [-] | | Must be something recent then. From an Internet meme or something like креведко? |
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| ▲ | bee_rider 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think this is also the connotation in English. We got it from Greek mostly, correct? I thought it meant something like “right-belief.” It can be contrasted against orthopraxy, right-practice, where the actions are more important than the belief or intent. Based on the other comments here, these orthodox file browsers are based on a sort of underlying language, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45271878 > The "orthodox" comes from a specific type of GUI, namely one that is driven by commands under the hood. UI elements are merely used to trigger commands that have the actual effect, and these commands could just as well be executed by hand, or automated into more complex commands. It… kind of makes sense actually, if we stretch the definitions a bit, haha. The orthodox UI has some button, which is translated into a sequence of commands that represent the actual user intent. The alternative is just to have the button do the thing directly, there’s no description of the user intent other than what the button does. It is quite a stretch but maybe we could call that the an Orthoprax UI. | |
| ▲ | rswail 6 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | The English word for that is "canonical". | | |
| ▲ | tremon 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | To me, "canonical" feels more descriptive whereas "orthodox" has a prescriptive connotation. But I'm also ESL, so not sure if that's just me or common in any/all English-speaking countries. | | |
| ▲ | schoen 5 days ago | parent | next [-] | | They're both derived from religious terms or religious metaphors. For me (native U.S. English speaker) the religious reference in "orthodox" is more transparent and that in "canonical" is more obscure, so "canonical" sounds more technical or more neutral somehow. | | |
| ▲ | rswail 5 days ago | parent [-] | | Agreed, but "canon law" has always meant church law. Canonical is derived from that, and it's got similar connotations of "reference design" as the use of "orthodox" here. |
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| ▲ | drnick1 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | "Canonical" is used all the time in math to mean, roughly speaking, a "standard" or "preferred" way of doing things. |
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| ▲ | rurban 4 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | But the canonical two-pane file manager is Total Commander, not this TUI Linux clone. |
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| ▲ | killerstorm 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'd say "Orthodox File Manager" is a forced meme by the author of the article. (Note that he links to his older article, etc.) 20-25 years ago when this kind of file managers were all the rage for power users I was in a Fidonet/Usenet discussion group with the most fanatical of these users, often sysadmins, plugin devs, etc. I don't think "orthodox" was used as a term - sometimes it was used as an epithet, maybe, sort of a joke. But I guess Dr. Nikolai shows us that if you are really committed to introduced a term you can do it, eventually :D |
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| ▲ | bluetomcat 6 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| They were popular because there was no Unix culture in Eastern Europe at the time. Pretty much any computer geek was a DOS user. To me personally, it always seemed kind of lame because many of these people would not bother to properly learn the shell language. |
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| ▲ | throw0101d 5 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > This origin is elaborated at length here: https://softpanorama.org/Articles/introduction_to_orthodox_f... Also: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox_file_manager |
