A VW e-Up(and its siblings, Skoda Citigo EV and Seat Mii Electric) all have passively cooled batteries but owners don't report much if any battery degradation even on the first gen models which are over 10 years old now. I can only assume it's the battery chemistry or cell composition compared to the Leaf. Our own is 4 years old and I haven't noticed any range loss compared to when it was new.

Not a battery expert, but I did recently look at using old leaf battery cells to build home battery. Their modules are 2s2p which make them impossible to balance.

Rivian I think it’s eating the extra buffer but that also means that the worse degradation that happens in first year is « free ». Then stats are a few percents per 100k miles…. There are articles about stats on long term degradation - it’s a non issue. Buy used if you can in USA - people perceive them as degraded so price is cheap but they don’t degrade fast

For practical purposes it is a 15 year old design; it had a minor update 8 years ago, but was not brought up to date with the norms of the time (in particular, the passively cooled battery).

This was the very first mass-market electric car, with only minor tweaks. It's not surprising that it's a bit rough around the edges. That's part of why they're cheap second-hand (along with the fact that the 3rd gen, which actually is a proper redesign, is coming out this year).

ZE1 Leaf(2017) was electronically a big minor update over ZE0(2010). IIRC so much so that ZE1 battery packs almost work on ZE0 body with only minor hack efforts.

So they're basically 15 years old, technologically older than the Model S. Windows 7 was 1 year old when its basic systems shipped.

To add to what others said: back in 2017 40kWh was the standard, now people scoff at 55kWh. Cars also charge faster, which greatly increases their highway driving potential.

> What if the car requires internet connection and the company dies?

That's not a problem specific to EVs and with Chinese combustion car brands coming and going all the time, it's obvious.

First generation Leaf was launched in 2010 second gen in 2017. That’s quite an old design for any tech that’s still advancing.

It's a 2 years old car, but the model and technology (2nd generation Nissan Leaf) is from 2017, so it's 8 years old in a rapidly evolving field.

>> When in reality you plug in at home and have a full battery every morning

Right, but I should buy a house with a garage first.

>> charge when you're getting groceries as the shop has multiple 100kW

Unless you do groceries in unusual time, those chargers are occupied. Will you wait in line then?

I had a leaf on demonstration for 24 hours. I was impressed with it. I drove the 50 miles to work and back, and put it on slow charge knowing I had 16 hours until I needed it. No problem. When I came to drive it in the morning it hadn't charged. It was actually a problem with the plug in the garage, it must have gone off a few minutes after I plugged it in. Now what? Wait 16 more hours?

A couple of weeks later I went on holiday. I wouldn't be able to charge where I was stopping, and there were no chargers within 15 miles. I kept my diesel.

> Renting a car for vacations / road trips is expensive. sure you can but expect to pay $100 per day.

Indeed... but now, think of the price difference between a small-ish commute EV and a chungus EV or ICE. Easily tens of thousands of dollars, that's a lot of days worth of rent.

> Also expect to arrive and be told they can't fill your reservation as they are out of cars.

That's extremely fucking rare to happen. In the eventuality your reservation can't be filled, you'll usually get upgraded for free. Personally, got upgraded from a small VW Golf class to a VW Phaeton once, plus a day for free. And automatic, no stick shift like the Golf.

Seems expensive but in the grand scheme of a road trip that is only like a 33% increase in price when you factor in a motel room for $100 a night, maybe $100 spend on gas a day filling up twice, $100 on three meals coffee and snacks for one. Give or take of course.

That is probably why the american road trip is a dying animal. Past a days drive you are coming way behind just flying straight there.

> Until you do the math and realize that the 3-4 annual trips of multiple days would end up costing thousands of dollars in rental fees per year.

First, 3-4 annual multi-day trips that go for longer than 300 km? If one has that amount of disposable income to afford that, go for whatever the biggest Tesla is and use Superchargers along the route, even drives so long they're a safety issue on its own due to fatigue don't get that much longer due to charging because kids will need to go to the toilet every so often even with an ICE.

As for the rental fees: here in Germany, I just checked - a Mercedes Benz Vito, so up to 8 people (or 6 people plus a ton of luggage), that's 50€ a day here. Crossing four digits takes 20 days of rental, that's a lot of vacation time even by European standards.

No idea what numbers you are crunching. I am doing this for 10 years now and able to afford luxurious cars for holidays because of it.

Obviously they are reporting the dashboard number. The first bar drops at 85%. For a 2019, it is probably getting close to dropping its first dashboard bar.

That is why I keep fixing up my old Diesels. No DPF, basic EGR, basic computer, no worries.

That's why I said repair regulations are needed for all cars not just EVs.