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Romario77 5 days ago

It was a significant progress, but I won't call it "nailed it". As there was an damage or explosion on re-entry where the skirt of the starship got damaged. And we could see pretty significant damage on one of the fins.

Nailing it would be without the things above.

gcanyon 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

The explosion was unexpected and (as far as I know at the moment) unexplained, but they flew the mission at the edge of the envelope, and with a variety of different materials/missing bits on purpose, to better understand where the edge is. Everything that happened (maybe even including the explosion, we'll see in the final analysis) was, as far as we know, within the plan.

The biggest can't-miss milestone was the flawless engine restart. That gives them the go-ahead to hit orbit on the next flight.

baq 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

I'd say the payload door situation is a considerable success, at least as big as the relight itself.

hnuser123456 5 days ago | parent [-]

I saw one of the dummy satellites bump into the edge of the door on the way out.

crowbahr 5 days ago | parent [-]

They were testing different catapult configurations. Seems clear that one is a no-go but others looked good.

m4rtink 5 days ago | parent [-]

Actually existing Starlink satellites regularly bu p into each other when lobbed in benches by the Falcon 9.

They are built to tolerate that, resulting in much better launch volume and weight utilization (sats are stacked on top of each other & held in place by rods that are then released).

The Starship Starlink release demo was quite tame in comparison to that. ;-)

ge96 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The deployment system was interesting, how the last one in the layer would go back then forward before releasing.

foobarian 5 days ago | parent [-]

It looked like something one would cobble together from a garage opener and weld together a bunch of rebar

NitpickLawyer 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

You should have seen the first tech demonstrator for the Raptor engine (the family that powers Starship). It was basically a water tower (built out in the desert, welded by people specialising in building water towers). But it flew, and it landed, and then it served as a lights & camera mount for the field for a few years.

m4rtink 5 days ago | parent [-]

Starhopper is still there, on a parking lot next to the launch site. :)

https://starship-spacex.fandom.com/wiki/Starhopper

potato3732842 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wonder how many potential designs they considered. You've got the mass of the doors and structure of the ship to consider, the mass of the cargo, actuators for both, the arrangement of cargo in the ship, all of which have interconnected tradeoffs.

m4rtink 5 days ago | parent [-]

Also add pressure management, warping of the dispenser and ship hull & thermal expansion.

And fornlong duration missions also lubricant evaporation, possibility of vacuum welding & atomic oxygen reactions if you spend long in low Earth orbit. :)

foobarian 5 days ago | parent [-]

The fun thing is that as long as you have the requirements and acceptance right, this could still be solved with a garage door opener and welded rebar :-D

Reminds me of early Google DIY rack PCs. [1]

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/google/comments/1lf6yat/googles_fir...

potato3732842 5 days ago | parent [-]

The garage door opener (literal or metaphorical) is sitting at the end of 50yr of incremental refinement, albeit for a different use.

If you can spare the weight and it meets your specs and the use it close enough you'd be a fool not to use it.

Culonavirus 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Keep in mind the ship diameter is like 30 feet. It may not seem like that from a camera view, but that pez dispenser is pretty massive.

GeekyBear 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> The explosion was unexpected

Is it really unexpected that an extremely hot metal pressure tank will rupture when plunged into water?

Since the ship is designed to be caught by a tower and not be plunged into water at all, it doesn't seem like this would be an issue in normal operations.

ranger207 5 days ago | parent [-]

Different explosion, the one the parent comment is talking about happened earlier in reentry

themgt 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

SpaceX has two big things going for it: Starship/Raptor factories churning them out cheap, and themselves as a paying customer in Starlink who can dogfood a risky new launch platform.

Now that they're demoed pez-dispensing v3 dummy Starlinks, I'd assume they'll start launching real ones within ~1-3 months. At that point as long as they can deliver payload to orbit and catch the booster the program is operational and they'll start switching their own Falcon 9 launches over.

The HLS timeline is definitely dicey, but whether Starship winds up being the blocker remains to be seen. Otherwise they've now succeeded enough to "lean launch" Starship with equal/better capabilities to any other existing orbital rocket, and Starlink can fund indefinite further tests/iterations on the rest of their roadmap features (which no one else has).

Ajedi32 5 days ago | parent [-]

> I'd assume they'll start launching real ones within ~1-3 months

I think it's still a bit early for that given that they've only had one successful flight and are still testing lots of new design changes, but I think you're right that the capabilities they've already demonstrated are probably enough to make Starship commercially viable even if literally none of the other revolutionary improvements they're working on pan out.

Falcon 9 doesn't recover the 2nd stage at all, and it's already by far the least expensive rocket out there in terms of cost/kg.

stetrain 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, although it was stated before the flight that they were intentionally flying with some heat tiles removed and with a more aggressive profile to test some outer limits.

ballenf 5 days ago | parent [-]

They even removed some near fuel tanks. In the past the missing tiles were in less critical areas.

I'm surprised they didn't take less risks just to avoid a narrative of failure.

NitpickLawyer 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

> I'm surprised they didn't take less risks just to avoid a narrative of failure.

That's the advantage of being privately owned. "Vibes" (hah) don't matter. Public opinion doesn't matter. What matters is executing on your vision / goals. And they're doing that.

The fact that they're bringing in loads of cash from Starlink surely helps. They haven't had the need to raise money in a while, now.

iwontberude 5 days ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

WalterBright 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Selling rockets to the government is not receiving gifts of taxpayer money.

peterfirefly 5 days ago | parent [-]

Especially not when they are cheaper and/or better than the competitors!

avmich 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I think you're wrong saying they are cash flow negative. Both Starlink and payload launching business are profitable in SpaceX.

boxed 4 days ago | parent [-]

He means that they are cash flow negative if you discount all government income and at the same time include all costs with those launches :P

avmich 4 days ago | parent | next [-]

> He means that they are cash flow negative if you discount all government income and at the same time include all costs with those launches :P

That would be a strange evaluation.

boxed 4 days ago | parent [-]

I've seen worse from SpaceX haters. I've had a "conversation" here on HN by someone who claimed that SpaceX doesn't land boosters anymore for example. Conspiracy theories basically.

iwontberude 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Bingo they aren’t anywhere near the solution to return the investment and will be raising debt or begging for more government money. They will be (progressively) nationalized to justify the additional cash infusions to keep the mission from being a complete failure. NASA wants their moon base I guess.

somenameforme 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's probably the first step on the path to stagnation.

There's a lot more eyes on them now a days, and Musk is much more well known, so it creates a lot more drama - but they've done the exact same process with everything. They even published a montage of failures [1] on the way to their first successful landing 'back in the day.' It was fiery, but mostly peaceful. They didn't even hit a shark!

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvim4rsNHkQ

jjk166 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Unless they took extra risks to hedge against the string of failures continuing. "Yes we blew up three times in a row, but this time we meant to do that, so it's a success" sounds an awful lot better than "We did everything we possibly could to prevent it from blowing up this time but it still did"

ndr 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why would they need to care about narrative at this point?

It's privately own, might as well learn as much as possible with each dollar spent.

DoesntMatter22 5 days ago | parent [-]

I'm certain they don't care about the narrative because ultimately even though yesterday was a big success some places had headlines that really downplayed it

pfannkuchen 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Does it really seem like Elon cares about public opinion at this point?

apercu 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

He acts like he cares a lot, comes across to me as someone deeply insecure and unhappy but I’m not qualified to diagnose him.

anthem2025 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

enraged_camel 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I view it differently. The ship not only survived, but also accomplished all of its mission objectives despite those issues. What this shows is that it has remarkable resilience, which is a really important considering the types of forces it will be subject to during future missions.

megaman821 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think this launch showed they were very robust. Engines went out on booster and ship which they can compensate for. A small explosion and a half melted fin didn't seem to affect the splashdown sequence or target.

m4rtink 5 days ago | parent [-]

I think there was just one unexpected engine out on the booster during launch. Starship engines worked without any issues on this flight AFAIK. :)

megaman821 5 days ago | parent [-]

The flight looked good, but I was wondering if the ship splashdown burn was the ideal one or an alternate one from a damaged engine. To me it looked like they were working around a damaged engine.

terminalshort 5 days ago | parent [-]

The splashdown burn was specifically set up that way to test the fallback scenario for a failure of one of the inner ring engines. The fact that the ship landed almost on top of the target buoy shows it was a success.

terminalshort 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Fin damage isn't ideal, but even if they had to replace the fins every flight, the cost would be quite low in comparison to replacing the entire second stage, which is necessary on the Falcon 9.

ekianjo 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> And we could see pretty significant damage on one of the fin

They specifically said they're testing lighter fins to see how much they would hold. Let's not invent problems when it's an experiment that was clearly stated.

gtirloni 5 days ago | parent [-]

Is it common to plan an explosion to test how something will react in these launches? Honest question, I know nothing about rockets.

In SRE, we have chaos engineering so I'm wondering if it's the same concept.

stetrain 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think "plan an explosion" is quite right.

They planned a test that would subject various components to stress levels outside of the normal mission profile. The various specific failures that resulted from that may be within expectations but not necessarily planned.

In engineering you want to know that a design will not just succeed at its rated limit, but have some margin percentage of safety above that. To measure that margin often involves destructive tests.

SpaceX's development methods differ a bit from more traditional rocket development by performing some of these potentially destructive tests with full-scale articles in real flight scenarios as part of an iterative process.

chedabob 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'd say it's a mixture of chaos engineering and load testing. They know what performance they need for a safe flight, but they want to know how much margin of error they've got (and how close their simulations are), and what they can do to optimise.

It's a different apporach to say the Apollo program, where they did heavy up-front analysis, at the expense of cost-efficiency, speed, and innovation. They had one-shot for a flight, otherwise that's several $bn up in flames.

Even with the last few mishaps, it's an approach that seems to be working. If you look at Starship and Falcon's journey in comparison to SLS and Blue Origin, they have done so much in such a short timespan.

GeekyBear 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

It's very common for extremely hot metal pressure tanks to rupture when plunged into water.

gtirloni 5 days ago | parent [-]

I understand but I'm asking more from a process perspective. If these are planned.

baq 5 days ago | parent [-]

In complex systems testing by perturbing the environment is the easiest, simplest and uncovers most relevant issues with design. They knew something would fail, but not necessarily what exactly or in which sequence. They can now reject or accept their hypotheses and improve their models.

m4rtink 5 days ago | parent [-]

Testing to destruction is used quite often to discover the final limits of materials and machines.

m4rtink 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I would say they nailed it based on achieving all the objectives they stated before the launch.

tw04 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The fins were intentional… they said on the live stream they were testing different types of tiles and missing tiles to see how the substructure would behave.

bpodgursky 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For Starlink deploys (or other commercial launches) re-entry isn't too critical. Starship is still an order of magnitude cheaper than other launch vehicles even without Stage 2 re-use.

They'll need a higher bar for Artemis but frankly Starship is not the only critical bottleneck there and it's not SpaceX's main financial driver.

rubzah 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The damage was visible long before the explosion, during ascent (not sure if anyone has explained how it happened). Though your point still stands.

I was very surprised that that flap still held up during the stress testing on atmospheric re-entry.

762236 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They compromised the ship to study failures of that nature.

stronglikedan 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nah, they nailed it.

moralestapia 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This guy ... MEGA lmao.

To the contrary, I am fascinated by what SpaceX has accomplished so far. I wouldn't just say they "nailed it" they completely blew past all expectations I had.

"Why didn't just get it right on their first test", really? People can't even get a regex right the first time.

Are you aware of the size of this rocket? That it reached orbit? That it hovered over the ocean instead of just crashing into it? That it came back into a point with such precision that a buoy with a camera was already waiting for it? From orbit (that its 30,000km/h and 150km high)?

Your comment is just ridiculous.

stetrain 5 days ago | parent [-]

> "Why didn't just get it right on their first test", really? People can't even get a regex right the first time.

The comment you replied to didn't say that. And this isn't the first test.

I think their comment was reasonable. It was a successful mission that met the stated objectives and demonstrated progress. But it wasn't perfect, and there is definitely more progress to be made for Starship to be a reliable operational launch system.

thisthis2 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]