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The article states that the purpose of this is "lost to time". I can image that by now its function is equivalent to a "brown M&M clause".

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iainmerrick 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

I'm a bit bemused at that "lost to time", as immediately before that it says:

The law requires a bale of straw to be hung from a bridge as a warning to mariners whenever the height between the river and the bridge’s arches is reduced, as it is at Charing Cross at the moment.

That seems clear enough! OK, the reason why it specifically has to be a bale of straw isn't obvious, but apart from that it seems very reasonable, just outdated.

Edit to add: straw does make sense as a makeshift crash barrier -- you'll notice if you hit it, but hopefully won't actually damage your ship. It seems like you would always just plough through and hit the actual bridge, though.

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tlb a day ago | parent | next [-]

Bales of straw are a cheap, large, soft object you could always find nearby in the pre-motor car days. I can't think of a better object to require.

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bombcar a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why does everyone think it’s something to run into?

At night it’s a light. It’s obviously a notification system. You visibly see the bale of straw before you get to the bridge and you know to slow down and stop and investigate what the clearance issue is.

	▲	woleium a day ago \| parent [-]
		Yes, a bale of hay used to be a warning of something to look out for on the road ahead

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raverbashing 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah it's amazing (in a bad sense) how those bridge too low warnings are ignored most of the time

Well of course when you get stuck then it's too late.

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tomxor a day ago | parent | next [-]

Similar to how people will read a temporary hand written sign on a door, but filter out a (newly placed) professionally made sign, because the latter looks too permanent.

If something has changed, using something out of place or temporary in appearance seems to be the most effective way of getting human attention... A bale of straw feels like it fits the bill.

	▲	mnw21cam a day ago \| parent [-]
		Absolutely. A straw bale hanging from a bridge over a river is an anachronism. It doesn't normally belong there, and it's more likely to be noticed than a literal notice.

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potato3732842 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

They get ignored because there's a fudge factor built into them.

Some states (IL in particular) have absurd fudge factors, so you have 14ft spaces signed as 12.xx and 13'6" trucks drive under them all day every day like it's nothing which basically trains them to ignore the signs.

And that's before you consider all the drivers who can't read english at road speeds so anything that isn't the standardized yellow sign right on/beside the object is going to go unnoticed to them a large amount of the time.

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guerrilla 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

In case anyone else forgot what that means.

> The "brown M&M clause" was a specific contract requirement by Van Halen that demanded all brown M&Ms be removed from a bowl of M&Ms provided backstage before their performances. This clause was not a frivolous demand but a way to test if the concert promoters had read the entire contract carefully. If brown M&Ms were found, it indicated that other important technical details might have been overlooked, which could pose safety risks for the band and the audience.

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theshrike79 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

And an additional note: The Van Halen show wasn't a few dudes with guitars and a set of drums going around in a van.

It was a massive display of pyrotechnics and staging - the requirements in the rider weren't there for fun, it was for actual safety.

	▲	red_admiral 14 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Didn't they also specify something like a 20 ampere widget plugged into a 10 ampere cable or something? If no-one questioned that, they'd hire or bring their own electrician to check absolutely everything with a cable near it. (That might have been another band, it was a long time ago I read this.)
	▲	guerrilla a day ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Are you young? I would think that is common knowledge. No offense, genuinely curious. Sounds like I must be getting old.

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gcanyon a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's a further aspect (supposedly): the brown M&Ms was listed in the pre-check conditions, and the contract stated that if any of them were found to not be in compliance then the Van Halen team had the right to force checks on any/all of them for compliance. So if they found the brown M&Ms it gave them the contractual right to demand that other, more impactful, requirements be (re)checked for compliance.

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CPLX a day ago | parent | prev [-]

You know I’ve seen this explanation a million times for decades and it’s always just a tiny bit wrong.

It’s a small distinction, but actually if the band showed up and found all the brown M&Ms still there the plan would have already been a failure.

The reason it was in the contract was to make sure the promoter had read the contract before signing it and understood what they were getting into.

Band riders are almost invariably redlined. Bands ask for all sorts of crazy shit and you cross out stuff you can’t provide or give a substitute brand name (like if the venue has an exclusive vendor relationship with Coke instead of Pepsi stuff like that) and then you work out any kinks and finalize it.

The reason to put the M&M clause in there is to get the promoter to strike the clause during the contracting process because any competent promoter will read every line carefully and strike something like that.

So when they do you know they read it and know what they are doing are comfortable signing a deal with them.

You would never want to be arriving at the venue with the clause still in force, that’s a sign you have a larger problem.

Source: I was a concert promoter in the 90’s

	▲	lmm a day ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Roth's own statements in his autobiography ( as quoted on https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/brown-out/ ) contradict that; they were playing in universities and the like that weren't used to hosting big technical band shows and probably didn't have dedicated band promoters in that era.
	▲	frederikvs 13 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		Removing the brown ones from a bowl of M&Ms is a 5 minute job that can be handled by anyone. I would expect a lot of people would go "well that's a bit eccentric, but if it makes the band happy, why not". I doubt the band would say "you didn't redline this weird but inconsequential request, we can't work together. If they wanted to be sure the redlining process worked, they should have put in something like "remove all fire extinguishers from backstage".
	▲	IAmBroom a day ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		It's both. Compliance statements don't prove that something will be complied with; they prove intent to do so. On-site test proves it was complied with. Source: I am a systems engineer.
	▲	red_admiral 14 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		It's rarely a brand issue with M&Ms though? I'd expect a competent promoter would read it and charge a reasonable amount for that line item. Band asks for crazy shit, you quote an almost-crazy price for it.