| ▲ | fooey 3 hours ago |
| starting to see some explanations for what's going on https://www.wsj.com/us-news/faa-temporarily-halts-flights-ac... > The outage appears to be affecting a telecommunications network overseen by L3Harris Technologies, according to people briefed on the matter. The network handles crucial radio frequencies that air-traffic controllers use to communicate with pilots, the people said. It wasn’t immediately clear whether the outage also affected the radar feeds that controllers use to keep aircraft safely separated in the skies. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/faa-issues-nationwide-ground-st... > An update to the private communications network that connects America's air traffic control system caused the system to reboot, leading to a crash and a communications outage, multiple sources told CBS News. The system is operated by L3Harris, which did not immediately respond to CBS News' request for comment. |
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| ▲ | sweswas2 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Anybody familiar with these systems know why they would do an update like this at 3pm on a Friday? This would be extremely unusual in any software job I have ever had. For commercial aviation specifically which does have pretty well defined peaks and valleys in terms of traffic over the course of a day this seems like an odd time to choose |
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| ▲ | pugworthy a few seconds ago | parent | next [-] | | Mission critical systems that are in use 24/7 are not managed based on week day vs weekend shifts. Or at least shouldn't be. My (hopeful) assumption is that air traffic control isn't based on the "weekends are the off hours" mindset. | |
| ▲ | salt-thrower 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I did web dev work for an airline and we couldn't even release new updates to the loyalty benefits website during a weekday (even though there was no connection to operations or flights). The fact that this company would reboot a critical comms server at 3 pm on a Friday is indeed bizarre. | | |
| ▲ | Rapzid an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I believe not deploying on Friday is an anti-pattern for most software teams. | | |
| ▲ | luipugs 39 minutes ago | parent [-] | | What industries have you seen teams deploy on a Friday afternoon? | | |
| ▲ | saturn8601 6 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Uh I'd imagine any team that mainly has their user base using the product on weekdays would deploy Friday evening so if something goes wrong they have the weekend to fix it. | |
| ▲ | mlhpdx 33 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | It happens. My company has done a couple dozen production rollouts today, including minutes ago. |
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| ▲ | ocdtrekkie an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | IT in corporate is actually more panicked than IT in life safety, because life safety invests more redundant design. | |
| ▲ | 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | luxuryballs 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | the update caused the reboot but could that mean the reboot happened due to a prior update? or literally the reboot was FOR the update hmm | |
| ▲ | NooneAtAll5 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > we couldn't even release new updates during a weekday so you were forced to release updates on weekends? isn't that worse? | | |
| ▲ | gdavisson 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It depends on the schedules of the people who'll have to fix it if something goes wrong. I don't mind working weekends, so when I was in the sysadmin game I always tried to make significant changes late friday/early saturday, so if something went wrong I had the weekend to fix it & clean up. But if the people needed to fix a problem take weekends off, pretty much the opposite schedule applies. | |
| ▲ | 80fj0348i 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Flights generally peak Mon-Thu due to business flights, weekends are usually lighter unless it's a long holiday weekend. | |
| ▲ | margalabargala 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Worse for the employees. Better for the clients. |
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| ▲ | ransom1538 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | "3 pm on a Friday is indeed bizarre" Most likely, they HAD to do it. | | |
| ▲ | wombatpm 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Probably was scheduled for Thursday evening but was delayed due to the Outlook issues. |
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| ▲ | maerF0x0 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It should be fine to update at any moment. Why? Because systems like this ought to be hot spare or blue/green models that have a full working copy at any given time, and a failover/failback. | | |
| ▲ | Waterluvian an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | A reasonable deployment plan considers the reality that the deployment could fail. One mitigation is to choose ideal conditions for a possible failure. You’re correctly pointing out one of the mitigations, but it doesn’t render the others unnecessary. | | |
| ▲ | bombcar an hour ago | parent [-] | | You can also have reasonable updates done at reasonable times that don’t show issues until unreasonable hours - or something else fails. But what I’m hearing is that one company “L3Harris” could take down the airfristructure anytime it wanted to. That’s not great. |
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| ▲ | sweswas2 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I mean sure and we have that in finance but there’s no amount of time saved that could make me deploy something during market hours | | |
| ▲ | logifail an hour ago | parent [-] | | Airspace certainly has busy and quiet(er) periods, but the skies are open all day every day. |
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| ▲ | skort an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Well clearly they don't have a hot spare or blue/green models, or working failover. | | |
| ▲ | monkpit an hour ago | parent [-] | | Which is why deploying at 3pm on a Friday is even more bizarre. |
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| ▲ | mainmailman 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Maybe patching a critical vulnerability? I’m also at a loss for why they chose Friday afternoon. | | |
| ▲ | cjbprime 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That could be their least busy day, for all we know. Weekends are busier than weekdays for airline travel. | | |
| ▲ | mrandish 24 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | But 3am is when a big chunk of planes are parked at gates awaiting the start of the flight day (yes, there are red-eye flights and international but they are a minority.) Overnight periods are when the air travel system largely resets itself from each day's cascading delays, mechanical failures and bad weather. | |
| ▲ | alistairSH an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Friday and Sunday are the busiest days. Business and pleasure overlap. Sat is mostly pleasure. Mon-Thu are mostly business. |
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| ▲ | 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | dietr1ch 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'd wager management wanted this by the EoW | | |
| ▲ | EvanAnderson 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Arbitrary day-of-the-week and date-based deadlines piss me off so much. I worked for a person who had a fixation on "neat" deadines: the "first of the month", "the end of the week", "the start of the quarter", etc. It'd be one thing if the dates were tied to legal compliance (tax filings, etc), but that usually wasn't the case. They were chosen because they were "tidy". I'd time meetings looking to maximize time for work. You try to meet late in the day Wednesday because an early Tuesday meeting might get an "end of the week" deadline. A late Wednesday meeting was more likely to garner a "end of next week" deadline. Meeting Thursday or Friday guaranteed an "end of next week" but you lost Thursday and Friday work time. Wednesday was a gamble, though, because it was still early enough to get you an "end of the week". Meeting after lunch helped with that. You always had to be aware of the numeric calendar day, though. Gunning for an "end of next week" deadline when next Wednesday was the end of the month (or worse, end of the quarter) almost guaranteed you an earlier deadline than you wanted. All of this deadline-setting happened with little regard for the amount of time work was going to take. It was immensely fun, when setting a deadline in this person's absence, to get a group to agree on a mid-week deadline. You could see it make this person's skin crawl hearing that the work would be done on Tuesday or a Thursday. | |
| ▲ | nik282000 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Weird how all epic stupid decisions come from the people who are supposedly the trained 'decisions makers.' I spend at least 1/3 of my fridays answering all requests with "Read Only Friday." | |
| ▲ | a012 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | RCA could be in just 2 words: incompetent people |
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| ▲ | vlovich123 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A security patch would be a reason not to wait. | | |
| ▲ | Rapzid an hour ago | parent [-] | | And because a security patch can't wait no deployment should wait because it's Friday. That's how you stay ready; you're always ready. |
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| ▲ | stridTastic an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Rolling out updates on a Friday afternoon is still practiced in various industries. | |
| ▲ | asdfman123 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Anybody familiar with these systems know why they would do an update like this at 3pm on a Friday As an insider to the technology industry, I would surmise the technical reason for it is that they didn't want to work over the weekend. (Yes, this comment is tongue in cheek, but not everyone follows the "don't deploy on Friday" rule, even people in mission critical fields.) | | |
| ▲ | takeda 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I would surmise the technical reason for it is that they didn't want to work over the weekend. Isn't that exactly what they did? If you do major change on Friday at 3pm you likely will work over weekend. | | |
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| ▲ | bitbangarang an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is why you don't push PROD on fridays... | |
| ▲ | _heimdall 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Nothing like a good Friday afternoon did lot to ruin a weekend. | |
| ▲ | thephyber 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Perhaps. But the entire first months of the Iran War was started on Friday after the markets closed. It took a few weeks for most Americans to catch on. My money is on some mundane ops issue like "it takes lots of time to get sign off for the upgrade from lots of different stakeholders and the necessary upgrade was falling days or weeks behind, leading to a key IT person to decide to YOLO the upgrade/deployment". I've heard that Sec Transport Duffy has been pushing FAA upgrades faster than is safe, so maybe the employee rushed it so this upgrade wouldn't hold back some other larger timeline. There have been several articles recently about how the FAA is full of people who are "too risk averse", suggesting that there might be an effort to push riskier projects faster. Having a nationwide outage is one of the likely symptoms of raising risk tolerance. | | |
| ▲ | hydrox24 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > It took a few weeks for most Americans to catch on In what sense? It was well reported at the time, so presumably most people know about it. I'd be interested in what makes you think the time and day of week chosen would delay market or public reaction be _weeks_. | |
| ▲ | panarky 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | My money is on DNS, but if it is enemy action, will the FAA even know that's what it is? | | |
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| ▲ | rdevilla 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | xattt 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Seeing L3Harris failing gives me a little bit of anxiety since their systems run some of the backend of some nuclear operations. |
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| ▲ | Animats 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Huh. I thought Collins now ran what used to be Aeronautical Radio, Inc. (ARINC), which is the ground portion of air traffic control radio. L3Harris has the radars and ADS-B.[1] [1] https://www.l3harris.com/sites/default/files/2021-08/MN_SBSS... |
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| ▲ | tjohns 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Collins/ARINC is used for oceanic HF radio. They run "San Francisco Radio" and "New York Radio" specifically, which are the HF radio operators that relay oceanic messages to ATC. (They also own a small number of private VHF stations for relaying company messages to air carrier operations domestically, but these aren't used for ATC purposes.) Otherwise, the VHF radio links are operated directly by FAA TechOps. L3Harris owns the telecommunications backhaul between facilities. |
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| ▲ | MBCook 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| How is there not a second backup network??? |
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| ▲ | sillysaurusx an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Cue that line from DS9 where O’Brien says he’d never be caught without a secondary backup during a fight, and the cardassian is like “you have a second backup?” incredulously. https://youtu.be/o7o9ZtipVyo?is=y3for_WXwISmuqpd I wouldn’t say anything but this is approximately the only time in my entire life this scene will be relevant. | | |
| ▲ | stevenhubertron 25 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I remember that scene, but I can’t believe that you had it at the front of your memory like that. That’s awesome. |
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| ▲ | dabinat an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The more time I spend working in tech, the more I realize that everything important is held together with cardboard and duct tape. | | | |
| ▲ | jiggawatts 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Why only “one” network at all!? The Internet was purpose designed to tolerate disruption as major as a nuclear war, which it achieves through decentralisation. Private networks exist to make idiot managers feel more confident while actually dramatically reducing availability by putting all their eggs into a single basket. | | |
| ▲ | 80fj0348i an hour ago | parent [-] | | Many aviation systems predate the internet. Depending on the region, some systems do not use Internet Protocol, let alone TCP. | | |
| ▲ | jiggawatts an hour ago | parent [-] | | The FAA Telecommunications Infrastructure (FTI) operated by L3harris was built between 2002 to 2007. That is already well within the era of IPv6, let alone "the Internet". There's no excuse. |
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| ▲ | maxnevermind 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > caused the system to reboot, leading to a crash and a communications outage why a reboot would cause a crash? or it means that an update irreversibly broke the system and it was rebooted but that didn't help? |
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| ▲ | jjkaczor 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah - like, why do they not have an "HA" cluster, where they patch and reboot a subset at a time... Something this critical should have some sort of failover/load-balancing in-play... | |
| ▲ | ea550ff70a 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Maybe the systems connected to it are not properly designed to handle such a reboot |
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| ▲ | int32_64 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Apparently the L3Harris CEO was ousted in August in a Jensen-like scandal. It's also the company that was modifying Trump's Qatar corruption plane. https://www.cnbc.com/2026/08/17/l3harris-ceo-chris-kubasik-l... |
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| ▲ | takeda 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Apparently the L3Harris CEO was ousted in August in a Jensen-like scandal. You mean he facilitated sale of restricted AI chips to China? Sorry, but I am tired of the effort to make it look like Jansen's crime was infidelity. If he just went to whore house he would be fine (well, ignoring a possible expensive divorce). | | |
| ▲ | chrisco255 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There's no evidence that AI chips were sold to China. The chips were sold to Singapore. I have yet to see confirmation the chips were subsequently smuggled out of Singapore with Jensen's knowledge. | | |
| ▲ | jryan49 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Gamers Nexus had some interesting coverage on the whole situation so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYU_geUwQoA | | |
| ▲ | chrisco255 an hour ago | parent [-] | | The Nvidia chips that the Russian drones are using are consumer class chips (TE980M-A1) that have no export controls. It's odd that this channel decided to highlight that when it's very clear those are not on export control lists only the high level AI chips are restricted and controlled in this way. Those chips were sold to any country that has open trade with Russia then they could easily make their way to Russia from second-hand markets. So from that alone I don't trust the integrity of this source's reporting. You'll find Intel, AMD, and every other name brand of CPU/GPU in all countries on earth, that doesn't make those companies culpable. |
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| ▲ | alterom 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >You mean he facilitated sale of restricted AI chips to China? No, they mean "had a sexual relationship with a subordinate". Which is what the linked article says. >Sorry, but I am tired of the effort to make it look like Jansen's crime was infidelity. Strawman. Nobody says that, and nobody cares. Jensen's "crimes" that we know of are: 1. Having a sexual relationship with a person suspected of being a Chinese spy (who, allegedly, influenced NVIDIA's chip sales to China) 2. Having an undisclosed sexual relationship with a direct report Both are huge liabilities for the company, as well as national security concerns (someone in a critical position putting themselves into a position for easy blackmail). None are crimes, all are factors contributing to the firing decision. >If he just went to whore house he would be fine (well, ignoring a possible expensive divorce). Same goes for the ousted L3Harris CEO. | | |
| ▲ | gopher_space an hour ago | parent [-] | | The number of creepy men supporting infidelity on HN amazes me. | | |
| ▲ | Ancapistani 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Could you be more specific about the comments you’re referencing? I don’t see anything in this thread, at least at a cursory glance, that could reasonably be described this way. | |
| ▲ | an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | alterom an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Did you somehow see defense of infidelity in my comment (hope not, because it wasn't there), or are you reflecting on the general trend? Who do you feel is creepy here (or a man, for that matter)? Infidelity (in itself) is not the thing that got either of those 2 men fired. That statement doesn't say anything about how anyone here feels about infidelity, nor whether it should or shouldn't be enough of a reason to fire a CEO. I don't see anyone supporting infidelity here. However, in a thread about Jensen, I've seen multiple people argue with me that the CEO having sex with subordinates isn't problematic at all (with total disregard for the power imbalance and potential for coercion). That was, indeed, very sad. |
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| ▲ | 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | rory096 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >An update to the private communications network that connects America's air traffic control system caused the system to reboot, leading to a crash and a communications outage And that's why you never deploy to prod on a Friday. |
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| ▲ | kilroy123 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Especially Friday the 13th. | |
| ▲ | 33MHz-i486 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | well is there a rollback procedure? | | | |
| ▲ | konfusinomicon 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | and they said "wont deploy on friday? thats 20% of the week in lost productivity!" | | |
| ▲ | amarcheschi 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I have memories of my professor saying something in the lines of "it's computer science, if you make a mistake nobody will die! Unless you're dealing with nuclear plants, medicals, or airlines" |
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| ▲ | voncheese an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Thank you. I learned more from this post in 15sec than I did in 20min from watching the Sec of DHS and Sec of Travel press conference |
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| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| [deleted] |
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| ▲ | eevilspock 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > leading to a crash poor choice of words |
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| ▲ | 8ig8 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Who updates on Friday? |
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| ▲ | zeroonetwothree 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Isn’t Friday usually a light travel day? | | | |
| ▲ | cucumber3732842 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | People who have a testing window Saturday morning, which is how a lot of legacy industries with cyclical schedules work. Weekends are slower air travel days. | |
| ▲ | lfnoise 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A junior engineer according to my table:
intern: break the build and go home.
junior engineer: break the build and go home for the weekend.
staff engineer: break the build and go on vacation.
senior engineer: break the build and retire. | |
| ▲ | moralestapia 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | There are no weekends in the airline industry, in case you didn't know. Everything operates normally, as any other day. | | |
| ▲ | cogman10 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There are early mornings and nights. Air traffic slows down significantly past midnight. | |
| ▲ | NooneAtAll5 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | no weekends for blue collars, but why would there be no for white collars? | |
| ▲ | bluefirebrand 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | There are still ways to roll out updates sensibly and safely in a 24/7 industry |
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| ▲ | nxobject 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I wonder if the update was signed with a cert chaining to a CA with a private key of "4". |
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| ▲ | sippingabonedry 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| [flagged] |