| ▲ | RataNova 12 hours ago |
| Modern marketing just preys on parental guilt. If you don't buy a $300 sensor or track your kid's location every second, they subtly make you feel like an irresponsible parent. It's actually sad for kids. In childhood being able to stay out a bit longer, solve sudden problems without calling mom, or just sit alone taught you how to cope with the world. But if someone monitors a child all the way to their college dorm door, it's unclear how they're supposed to develop personal autonomy at all |
|
| ▲ | blitzar 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Many decades ago - there was barely a dangerous / dumb thing you could do roaming my neighbourhood that the network of mothers wouldn't relay back by the time you got home. |
| |
| ▲ | mschuster91 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | yeah and that filter is the point - only the truly dangerous stuff would make it back to your mom, but nothing else. | | |
| ▲ | blitzar 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | You knew at all times you were being watched | | |
| ▲ | Terr_ 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm being seen by everyone else when I walk around the street, but there is friction to the information, it's not being collected, transferred, or cross-referenced unless it meets certain thresholds that involve many people signing off on it as notable or unusual. There's a big difference between all your neighbors running purely on-premises camera setups versus all of them running individual nodes of a giant panopticon. |
|
| |
| ▲ | 41353aab 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
|
|
| ▲ | jareklupinski 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > being able to stay out a bit longer, solve sudden problems without calling mom, or just sit alone none of these are prevented when you have an airtag in your pocket my hesitation is from knowing these _dont_ work: by the time airtag shows where someone actually is that isnt a 500m circle, you can see them with your analog eyes :/ |
| |
| ▲ | trashb 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > none of these are prevented when you have an airtag in your pocket. Technically true. However I think there is a very small percentage of parents that can keep themselves from interrupting in such a situation. Actually I think it leads to a slippery slope situation (the article calls it a downward spiral) where the interruptions will be easier to make the more you do it as a parent. The only question remaining is how high up the slope do you start and how fast do you slip? | |
| ▲ | embedding-shape 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > none of these are prevented when you have an airtag in your pocket When I was about 8 years old I was allowed to go with the bus by myself between my mom and my dad. I can remember two times I fell asleep on the bus, and ended up some other place, and had to figure out how to get home from there, by myself. I'm sure of the technology was available at the time, my mom would have placed an airtag on me, and without a doubt, would have seen me miss my bus-stop and jumped into her car to pick me up wherever I ended up. Bless her heart, but I'd miss the opportunity of figuring it out by myself. Of course, just one silly example, but I could see if this was constantly happening, a child might get accustomed to this "saving" being automatic, and not even trying to solve things yourself because you know your parent will come save the day. Until they don't, of course. | | |
| ▲ | jareklupinski 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > I can remember two times I fell asleep on the bus, and ended up some other place, and had to figure out how to get home from there, by myself. if it involved asking a business (car service in my case) to let you use their phone, or already having a quarter and using a payphone to call mom... thats an airtag :) > a child might get accustomed to this "saving" being automatic i dont fear a perfectly functioning society; im an adult and am also used to 911/999/etc being available. some people watch Demolition Man and get the wrong idea... | | |
| ▲ | thereader12 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It is not an airtag. The payphone doesn't use a network of snitches to say where you are at all times. It is really bad to instill the idea that you are never private, it makes our surveillance situation worse and more accepted. Which i am sure hackernews and the EFF have plenty of articles to show why normal people need privacy. | |
| ▲ | blitzar 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > having a quarter and using a payphone to call mom I had enough coins for 2 phone calls in a sealed envelope in my school bag for emergencies - probably still in the bottom of my bag wherever it may be. | |
| ▲ | dahart 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > that’s an airtag How so? Mom has no way to know where you are until you initiate the call. Isn’t a big part of the developmental point to have kids recognize they’re lost on their own and then ask for help from a friendly stranger? What’s the ‘no airtag’ scenario you imagine? | |
| ▲ | mschuster91 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > if it involved asking a business (car service in my case) to let you use their phone, or already having a quarter and using a payphone to call mom... thats an airtag :) No. An airtag works for your mom no matter if you want it or not, some payphone on the street places the agency about calling help into your hands. |
| |
| ▲ | htrp 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | already a thing.... look at the problem solving skills of some of the fresh grads |
| |
| ▲ | paganel 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > none of these are prevented when you have an airtag in your pocket It instills a Panopticum-like philosophy in said kids since their very early ages, meaning they become aware that they're being watched at every moment of their lives. In my opinion that does affect said kids' future look on life (once they will have become adults, that is). | | |
| ▲ | graemep 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes, it normalises surveillance. | |
| ▲ | jareklupinski 11 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > It instills a Panopticum-like philosophy in said kids since their very early ages Santa Claus has been around since before airtags; you dont need technology to make kids fearful of invisible retribution, just a clever song ("he sees you when youre sleeping, he knows when youre awake") | | |
| ▲ | r_lee 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | that only works for very vey very young kids. I dont get your point | | |
| ▲ | germinalphrase 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | We’ve strip-mined every cultural superstition and monster for the entertainment industry, but those superstitions and monsters often existed - even in the minds of adults - to warn against certain behaviors, actions or locations. | |
| ▲ | watwut 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And only on christmas day. They dont think long term, no getting christmas gifts is not a treat in november - it is infinetely far for a small kid. | |
| ▲ | kelseyfrog 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Santa Claus for the very young; an omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God for everyone else. We have at least a several thousand year history of instilling a 'Panopticum[sic][1]-like psychology' in enormous swaths of society. More of the same. 1. please tell me this is a typo | | |
| ▲ | graemep 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If that was so people who were more religious would be more accepting of surveillance and I do not think that is the case. God is also perfectly good, outside time, unlikely to question your actions, and completely forgiving. Rather different from being watched by human beings. I do not think belief divine omniscience by itself had much impact on people's behaviour. | | | |
| ▲ | tavavex 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's true that the idea of 'someone is watching you' is very old and a well-tested method of social control. The religious angle may be why so many people are receptive to mass surveillance today. But not everyone is religious, and those that are rarely live with a true, 24/7 feeling of dread and fear that someone is actually watching. The fear of consequences is very distant, and there is often forgiveness for small infractions. That fear becomes very different when you can put a face and a name to the people watching you, and you know they can affect your life in very real and immediate ways. This is the preconditioning that starts with childhood surveillance. | | |
| ▲ | kelseyfrog 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I've spoken to many of the deconverted who where genuinely afraid of committing real and mental sins as a direct condition of omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence. Have you not met someone like this? | | |
| ▲ | thin_carapace an hour ago | parent [-] | | are u saying that people shouldn't be afraid of the consequences of behaving improperly ? | | |
| ▲ | kelseyfrog 7 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I'm saying, in response to "The fear of consequences is very distant, and there is often forgiveness for small infractions," that people do have a fear of misbehaving and a belief in an omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent god is a critical component of a 'feeling that someone is always watching' resulting in that fear and subsequent avoidance. |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | pantalaimon 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Soon we'll all be watched over by machines of loving grace. | | | |
| ▲ | amenhotep 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's not "everyone" else though is it. Especially not in the recent decades where this surveillance has become a real thing. | | |
| ▲ | kelseyfrog 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | What does that have to do with the subject of discussion: instilling a Panopticum[sic]-like philosophy in said kids since their very early ages? |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | iamnothere 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Most kids have an important developmental moment where they realize Santa isn’t real | | |
| ▲ | giardini 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah, but then there's religion with an all-viewing God or gods. And years of these ideas repeated never really goes away. After all, what if there really IS a God, or Vishnu, or Allah, and a Hell, etc.! The very idea is enough to drive a kid to Pascal's wager. | | |
| ▲ | iamnothere 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | There’s many people who don’t believe in either Santa or god. Only about half of younger people believe in hell in the US. Unfortunately, even those who escape such beliefs now have to face the reality of surveillance not by gods, but by men, many of whom don’t have your best interest in mind. |
| |
| ▲ | 41353aab 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
|
|
| |
| ▲ | usrnm 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > none of these are prevented when you have an airtag in your pocket Do you want to install an app on your phone that will track you and your online activities for the government? They won't interfere, they just want to know what you're up to and help. Children are people and want some privacy too. I know I did. | | |
| ▲ | 4bpp 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | Presumably, when this generation comes of age they will largely answer this question with "sure, I don't see the problem", which many will consider a big win. |
| |
| ▲ | deadbabe 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | AirTag showed a mom her kid was in a lake, she made a big scene, frantically calling 911. Kid was not in the lake. |
|
|
| ▲ | madaxe_again 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Most marketing for most things preys on guilt, fear, and avarice - negative emotions are uncomfortable, and you first create the negative emotion in the target's mind, and then sell them the solution, to alleive their discomfort. I was a kid who wandered. Sometimes through bear infested forests at night. Sometimes through abandoned factories with collapsing roofs. Sometimes to the homes of people my parents strongly disapproved of. I lived. So did pretty much everyone else. I had a few significant fuck-ups. I learned from them, and didn't repeat them. In my childhood, I knew one kid who died from misadventure - grain silo - and many who died from disease - meningitis, cancer, sepsis. Perhaps parents should keep their children in protective plastic bubbles, if they're going to be consistent about it. My kid - no tracking, and autonomy that I see makes other parents writhe with discomfort, as they're like "she'll be stolen! Her kidneys!", and I'm going "you guys don't understand statistics, and your kids are going to live with you until you die, and lead stunted lives". |
|
| ▲ | SMAAART 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Black mirror. |
|
| ▲ | giantg2 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| "If you don't buy a $300 sensor or track your kid's location every second, they subtly make you feel like an irresponsible parent." It's not just marketing - the laws are getting more and more restrictive too. Not having some tracking on your kid starts to be used against people in court cases (criminal or civil). The think of tha children crowd has the ear of law enforcement and prosecutors. |
|
| ▲ | HPsquared 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's another mode of "anxiety farming". Under the "exploiting human psychology for profit" series. |
| |
|
| ▲ | 41353aab 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| [dead] |
