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| ▲ | tkgally 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I was bothered not so much by the slopful article as by the AI-written text in the dashboard that iKnow produces. I ran the program on my Mac and it did display charts and graphs with names of people and organizations I’ve interacted with over the years, but I couldn’t figure out what it all was supposed to mean. One example: "323 people, 122 events and other records, 200 employers and 1 stored group — as the store on this Mac links them. Read live just now. Colour is what each node is to you: the stored group in red, family and closeness by iKnow’s rules on the kinship scorecard. Size is how many rows in the store name it." Claude etc. can be prompted to produce clearer explanations than that. | | |
| ▲ | wpm 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Yep I cannot fathom why people feel OK shipping anything like that publicly. The headers are also all completely stupid. > Every node as a list — the graph is not the only way in > Family, as the scorecard has it > Reachable, exactly as stored Oh good I was worried it was going to show me something altered > WHY RESOLVABLE MATTERS Oh fuck off. This isn't Axios! I hate these pathetic brainrot stupid phrases Why it matters What Happened What Changed, how patronizing. Instaclosed, instakilled python, what a fucking waste of my time and a waste of an article too | | |
| ▲ | ricardobeat 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > Six people, six relationships, and a subtitle saying nobody typed any of it. > a closeness score above the cut · nobody typed it > A dashed line is a conclusion nobody typed. > Nobody stored a sleep schedule. > The hours the log goes quiet - a sleep schedule nobody wrote down > published by metadata that contains no words. This is Claude-ism that is particularly infuriating, it never makes any sense. |
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| ▲ | coldpie 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yeah seriously. Article becomes unreadable immediately after the intro. I believe this author probably could actually write two years ago, it's a shame people are just giving up on that and choose to turn out stuff like this instead. | | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I'm having more trouble spotting AI text these days. It used to jump out at me. I'm not sure if it's that the LLMs are better or it's just becoming so normal to see that I stop recognizing it. This one didn't scream "slop" to me other than being quite long-winded for a blog post that I admittedly did not finish on first read. Going back and scrolling deeper into the post, it does become much sloppier. | | |
| ▲ | 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | coldpie 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > quite long-winded for a blog post That's actually exactly what does it for me. After the intro, it gives you way too much specific detail. No one cares about the exact file path or whether that path is TCC Full Disk Access protected. What does that even mean? Why is this important enough to be in the first sentence of the section? I don't care that there's 51 database files and 181 other things and 278 doodads. Who says stuff like "triple store?" It uses bizarre language with far too much detail, and like you said, your eyes start to glaze over because there's so much irrelevant information. No human would've chosen to write all that tedious detail in their post about something much more interesting. It's bad writing. It's slop. A human would've said something like "It's a database in <Library/IntelligencePlatform> with three columns that contain..." and left all the rest of it out or maybe in some extreme details footnote. | |
| ▲ | coldtea 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | >this one didn't scream "slop" to me other than being quite long-winded for a blog post that I admittedly did not finish on first read Maybe you're just looking for GPT 3.5 era tells? Because this one sure screams AI slop loudly and clearly: "The identity group is the tidy story: same surname, same home address, an iCloud Family flag — and it is the small half. " "The graph is the overview, and an overview is easy to shrug at. The pages behind it are not." "Six people, six relationships, and a subtitle saying nobody typed any of it." "Below that is the part I find hardest to argue with." "This is the page's own honest point: the graph points at the face clusters and can name almost none of them (three of the twenty-nine, in the fixture). It does not need to." "None of this is content. It is all metadata, and it is enough." | | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker a day ago | parent [-] | | As I said, below the fold the tells are more obvious. I didn't get that far on first reading, because I was already getting bored. | | |
| ▲ | coldtea 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think on the top part he had his self-written summary which gave to the AI to expand, and the second part just had some bullet points or shorter prompt. |
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| ▲ | infwhispers 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | My bad. In my defense, only the technical parts are AI. But, thanks for the feedback; I thought I had unsloped it enough... | | |
| ▲ | JoshTriplett 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It's not possible to un-AI text, only replace it wholesale. Suggestion for next time: "Review my prose for accuracy, grammar, appropriate strength of claims, etc. Flag any issues for my attention. Do not provide text; this work should not contain any AI-written content." That'll turn it into a very good check that doesn't take your voice away. | | | |
| ▲ | 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | nstents 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | smallerize 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It's already technically possible for LLMs to generate all kinds of styles of text. In fact older models are better at it. It's the newer models that are nearly impossible to steer. This makes me less hopeful for the future. There is apparently some incentive for Claude and ChatGPT to lock in these very recognizable patterns. | |
| ▲ | Spooky23 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | AI writing is fine in a constrained space. If you create a strict template, like a PowerPoint deck or tightly formatted report, the LM does a really, really good job. at populating that template with good data. If you give it an open license to just create stuff, it’s always terrible for the general audience — but it may be fine for you or a small group that is familiar with the subject. I compare it to fast food. An uneducated teenager is quite capable of putting together a McDonald’s lunch within the constraints of the system. If you let the kid loose in a kitchen designed for trained chefs, the result would not be a good lunch. | | |
| ▲ | jdiff 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > but it may be fine for you or a small group that is familiar with the subject. One of the problems with LLM writing is that the "small group" is very often only itself, maybe including the prompter. Details of the prompts or implementation or internal chain-of-thought nits leak out into prose, divorced from context. Many READMEs are now littered with proud declarations of the removal of Foo, with any explanation purged with it. It exists in this project, too. A header of one graph is "Where each fact came from, decoded out of the bitmask." Why should the audience care about this implementation detail at this location? Just label it "Sources" and move on. | | |
| ▲ | Spooky23 a day ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, the LLMs “thought” process does not distinguish between internal monologue and presentation well. That’s why you funnel it into a template. |
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| ▲ | bookofjoe 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >Complaints of AI are like a form of friction that eventually goes away. This. Already there is evolution in AI-related comments here. For example, a year ago they often featured remarks like "I know AI when I see it: here are unmistakeable 'tells.'" Then there would be a lively back-and-forth about the validity of the stated giveaways. Such "How I know it's AI"-type comments no longer appear. | | |
| ▲ | jazzypants 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | "It's not X, it's Y" is still the most obvious one. Abuse of passive voice is another. We stopped talking about it because it gets boring to say the same things over and over. | |
| ▲ | jdiff 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | This has not been my experience. People talk about LLM-isms (Claude-isms especially) all the time. "The absolute shape", "load bearing", "seams", "smoking gun", genuinely empty preambles, constant sloganesque phrasing. If you're seeing it less in conversation, it's not because it's improved. | | |
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| ▲ | ChrisMarshallNY 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [flagged] | | | |
| ▲ | RunSet 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | It is funny to me how slop enthusiasts argue from the past and the future to deny the present state. "Slop is here to stay so you better get used to it because slop is inevitable and you will be left behind." It is both already a cemented permanent presence and destined to arrive by an unbreakable prophecy at a date TBD. | | |
| ▲ | whoanoway 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | [dead] | |
| ▲ | nstents 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | If you came away thinking I was enthusing about AI slop, it's probably because I was too subtle in comparing it to a food I abhor while saying there are tidbits, non-slop tidbits, that I could appreciate. Apologies for that human generated mischance! | | |
| ▲ | ChrisMarshallNY 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm actually rather bemused to see many young folks, arguing against LLMs and ML, and seeing more experienced folks, embracing it. I'm pretty experienced, and have found LLMs to be quite useful. Like any new tool, there are deficits and peculiarities, but these are becoming less of a concern, and the utility of these tools is advancing rapidly. | |
| ▲ | masfuerte 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | We get it. You are saying that in the future there will only be mushrooms to eat and as a result everyone will enjoy mushrooms. Now think about how much you hate mushrooms. Do you see the problem with your argument? |
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| ▲ | embedding-shape 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > In my defense, only the technical parts are AI. A defense would be "I just used it for spellchecking" not "I just used it for the meat and the important parts people care about, the rest is mine!" | | |
| ▲ | NewsaHackO 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Yes, that was a weird defense; essentially, he used it for the actual interesting parts of the article. |
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| ▲ | Hamuko 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | So most of it? | |
| ▲ | fatata123 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | So only the parts that matter, you ai slopped. Great work. | |
| ▲ | sick_of_slop 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | You can’t unslop A.I. prose. Once it’s written, the content is poisoned. “Sure there was a turd in the punch bowl but I did my best to remove it, so you should be able to drink it.” Nope. And the technical parts are what matter, saying you did that with A.I. tells me “I don’t care about this part” so what the heck are we even doing here? | | |
| ▲ | rowanG077 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Interesting for me it's the opposite. I care about this so I let AI do it since LLM are better writers than the majority of people. I'm not so arrogant to think I'm a writer of that caliber. | | |
| ▲ | amenhotep 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | You are. I promise you. Almost every single person is a better writer than an LLM. You're wilfully sabotaging yourself. | |
| ▲ | InsideOutSanta 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Maybe LLMs are better writers than the majority of people, but that's only because the majority of people just don't write. If you have any level of competency, you are a better writer than an LLM, because good writing requires empathy. It required thinking about what the audience knows, what they want to know, what kind of writing they are comfortable with, and so on. LLMs fail at those things. | |
| ▲ | asdff 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | LLM are terrible writers though. Worse than most humans unless they have some mental disability. | |
| ▲ | sick_of_slop 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
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| ▲ | burnte 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Agreed, I haven't read most of it because it's poorly written: too verbose, points are buried, it's three times longer than it should be. I still don't know what this database is used for and don't want to go through that writing to find out. | |
| ▲ | n0on3 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I second this. Unfortunately you just can’t just “unslop” it, much like you can’t just “shake the dirt away” from food that fell into a bucket of… you get my point, it won’t be good to eat anyway. Bonus additional ironic parallel could magically manifest if you can guess the bucket content. Anyway, it’s a shame, this could have been excellent work. Instead, I find reading it unpleasant and part of my attention rots away wondering if you even checked what the LLM wrote for you. You probably did, and I could also do it myself, but still… | |
| ▲ | ecto 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I disagree. Hand-authored articles can be slop too. This research is great, and your subjective feelings about word cadence don't affect the information. I guarantee you read AI output every day and don't know it. | | |
| ▲ | ahartmetz 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Hand-authored engagement or clout (LinkedIn) farming articles and corporate press releases are usually slop, most others aren't. I'd be surprised if corporate press releases today weren't largely AI-written - no one would know the difference. | |
| ▲ | otterley 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | The criticism can be restated, then, as “you used AI to write it, and unlike others who use AI to write things, you did a bad job directing it and editing the work.” | | |
| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 2 days ago | parent [-] | | This comment is not directed at you, but this is the best place I could find to insert my thoughts on this "nO LLm slOP" distraction: ---- The research is jaw-dropping enough for the average reader to comprehend (e.g: I am not a techie, but a former IBEW datacenter wiretwister). It could be covered in pube-sprinkled-turds and would still be worth reading. To me the "slopLOL" crew is akin to people who'll take their time to correct others' their/they're/there usage: Just read the fucking sentence (LLMs can and do and aren't so poopy-you-suck-for-being-human). | | |
| ▲ | otterley 2 days ago | parent [-] | | We know there’s interesting information in there. That’s not the point. How news is delivered matters. If you don’t believe that, why would news outlets compete with each other? Even if the facts are the same, would you prefer to get them from a good or bad writer? | | |
| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 2 days ago | parent [-] | | >would you prefer to get them from a good or bad writer? I am smart enough to not need perfection. I just want the data. Write however tf you want, good'll'be read. And so will LLMs. I'll suggest adaptation. >why would news outlets compete with each other? Competition for the masses' con$umption$? It seems to generally work; shouldn't have to obfuscate the `man` pages for this always-running daemon... how many people even know what `man`pages are (obviously not here)? how to access them? why they would even want to? | | |
| ▲ | pjscott 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | > always-running daemon This is completely tangential to your point, but I'd bet that this daemon isn't always running. Apple is fond of putting as much system functionality as possible into daemons that (a) can be spun up quickly when needed in response to Mach IPC messages, (b) can be killed safely at any time to free up memory, including with SIGKILL if necessary, and most importantly (c) operate in the tightest, most locked-down sandbox they could devise. For background computational tasks like this one, it can also be helpful for getting thread prioritization right. If some computation doesn't need to happen quickly, a daemon can easily make sure that it gets assigned to efficiency-optimized CPU cores, tell the OS scheduler to give priority to more important stuff, reduce precision of timers to coalesce wakeups, and make sure that any thermal throttling affects the background stuff before it slows down anything the user will notice. It's a pretty slick system. | |
| ▲ | otterley 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Well, good for you for not caring, I suppose. The vast majority of society does. > I am smart enough Knock yourself down a peg, kid. | | |
| ▲ | ProllyInfamous 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I will, sure, but I've been writing about this for almost a decade; and I know more than most people about this topic, despite being a bluecollar electrician. Also, my IQ scares even me; I've chosen bluecollar so I don't have to be evil as much with it. ---- Companies do not give two shits about most users, with (e.g:) AMD saying the quiet part out loud, recently, with their recent gamers-last announcement. Also see: Apple's invasive attempts to categorize all local data, by default; if you want to opt-out (some service, like OP's, you cannot!), it takes dozens of clicks for each new software – intentional dark-patterns to make opting-out cat-and-mouse. ---- >Well, good for you for not caring, I suppose. I care too much, is the problem (at least from my POV). Companies are soulless, and only care for shareholder value (legal requirement). Data is the new_oil is the new_steel is the new_tin is the... | | |
| ▲ | otterley 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > I've been writing about this for almost a decade; and I know more than most people about this topic > Also, my IQ scares even me Oh, brother. I mean this with the best of intentions and care: have you been psychiatrically evaluated lately? The language you’re using is consistent with friends I know who are off their stabilizing medications. |
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| ▲ | amelius 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | ahartmetz 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Why? "There is gravel in the food" is a perfectly valid contribution. You don't need to write a compelling story about it. | | |
| ▲ | amelius 2 days ago | parent [-] | | Because the article itself is way more interesting than the question of with what style it was written. | | |
| ▲ | ahartmetz 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It's like the saying beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes clean to the bone. Bad AI writing makes an article "unreadable" - you'd have to force yourself to read it, and people don't get paid for reading stuff on HN. The HN value of an unpleasant to read article is basically zero. | | |
| ▲ | amelius 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I really don't want to waste more words on it here. | | |
| ▲ | ahartmetz 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I think the difference might be that you find bad style easy to ignore and I don't. | | |
| ▲ | simonra 2 days ago | parent [-] | | If the applied style is painful, can't one just take a lightweight model and have it transcribe the content in a style that one personally finds pleasurable? Even phones should be powerfull enough to chew through such a task locally these days (even across languages), and once you define the criteria for what you enjoy you'll never have to be pained again (unless you enjoy it offcourse) | | |
| ▲ | JoshTriplett 2 days ago | parent [-] | | The criteria I enjoy is "written by a human". | | |
| ▲ | kelseyfrog 2 days ago | parent [-] | | You can pay someone to rewrite it. There's loads of college students who wouldn't mind extra spending money. |
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| ▲ | charcircuit 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | You don't have to leave a comment if you are too lazy to read it. It's not even if the words were written mirrored. Anyone who can read English including children can read the output of AI without needing to force anything. Maybe you need to see a doctor if you need to force yourself to read it. | | |
| ▲ | kelseyfrog 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I wouldn't worry about the down votes. Human voice will eventually go the way of the pops, and hiss of dusty records. Eventually those raised on AI generated prose will come to appreciate it in the same way we have nostalgia for 96kbps mp3s. | |
| ▲ | JoshTriplett 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | "How dare you have a preference that is not my preference?" | | |
| ▲ | charcircuit a day ago | parent [-] | | Having a preference of writing style and being unable to read a writing style are not the same. | | |
| ▲ | JoshTriplett a day ago | parent [-] | | The comment upthread was: > Bad AI writing makes an article "unreadable" - you'd have to force yourself to read it That doesn't literally mean "unable to read", it means it's unpleasant. I don't think anyone in this thread has literally meant "I could not possibly read it", just "it's painfully unpleasant". |
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| ▲ | Sharlin 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Its interestingness is zero if it’s so aggravating to read that you just give up. |
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| ▲ | hosteur 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Can we add a rule that if you blame someone for using AI, you _also_ have to bring something interesting to the table? No. | |
| ▲ | Ajoha 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I agree. One comment constructive is enough.
It feels like some guys pushing the topic away. It annoys me as it takes my attention with them so with all respect: user aharmetz (and others) please keep it in one post that you’d prefer non-AI text. Point. Thank you. | |
| ▲ | jghn 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I’d rather this over the very long tradition in this site if people bellyaching about site design and layout on otherwise u related comment threads | |
| ▲ | nekusar 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Can we add a rule that if you blame someone for using AI, you _also_ have to bring something interesting to the table? Criticism is a valid 'something interesting'. And growing numbers of us also don't want to feed the US mega-companies LLM training sets. More and more people are keeping human-generated stuff to themselves, cause of that. |
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