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▲ mrweasel 3 hours ago

If the people in charge of the AI companies understand the risk I don't know, but I think it's a good point that they mainly care about the money. These are also people who aren't accustom to cleaning up their own mess, so what do they care if something goes wrong.

The carelessness is also clear in how AI is rolled out. It's being presented as a disruptive technology, as is everything else presented by modern tech companies. The goal is a very large payout in a very short period of time, it's not to make anything better, or worse, either is just a side effect.

Had LLMs first been presented as a "better IntelliSense", where rather than auto-completing function names, your editor can now suggest implementations, very few people would have been upset. Same for writing, it's just a better version of Grammarly, it's fine, or as a tool in drawing software. The issue would have been, for the AI bosses, that this takes time and doesn't create trillion dollar companies. It only creates companies that they'd actually have to run, long term, and that's boring.

▲Aurornis an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> The issue would have been, for the AI bosses, that this takes time and doesn't create trillion dollar companies. It only creates companies that they'd actually have to run, long term, and that's boring.

I feel like you’re not acknowledging the inevitability of the technology being developed further. You’re also ignoring competition and the basic fact that people do research and push the boundaries of their field naturally.

If the major frontier AI labs had decided, as you said, to make a fancy autocomplete and a better Grammarly and then simply stop and coast, do you really believe that every AI researcher and entrepreneur in the entire world would look at the situation and decide that the status quo is where it should end?

Humans don’t work that way. People would get ideas and want to push the limit. If the frontier labs stopped developing their technology, other companies would be created to carry on. Academic researchers would push the limits further. It would be discovered that the AI could go further and we’d get back to this same eventuality with a different set of people leading it.

I also disagree with your characterization of this as a get rich quick scheme for AI leaders who want to make a lot of money and then be done. I think this characterization feels truthy if your only conception of startups is as a gamble to retire early, but the people who build and run these companies actually do like building and running companies. If the AI leaders and executive management you’re talking about were separated from their jobs today, even with billions of equity, most of them would be out starting new companies next month because that’s what people like that do. I’m not saying this to “glaze” them or whatever I’ll surely be accused of in the comments, I’m stating some facts about this space. You don’t need to look far to find examples of this already happening.

▲rafterydj 20 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I really don't like the excuses that are inherent to the "well it was inevitable" line of thinking. Oppenheimer was still responsible for the bomb despite it being "inevitable" in a similar way.

Despite this, when discussing the egregious behavior of the frontier labs, there is vanishingly little acceptance of the idea that 1) yes, it probably was inevitable in some ways AND 2) those involved, particularly at the top, are still responsible for the consequences of their (bad) decisions.

▲pyyxbkshed 2 minutes ago | parent [-]

I have also not been able to lean towards a side in inevitable v/s responsible.

1. Is it both inevitable and still they are responsible? 2. Or it was inevitable and they were just an instrument to make it happen. 3. Or it wasn't inevitable and if it were not for some specific people then it would not have happened?

I am leaning more towards 2. But if that is the case why are only specific people reaping the benefits of this?

If it is 3 or 1, then why aren't we holding them accountable?

▲knottn 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

“not acknowledging the inevitability of the technology being developed further”

This looks a lot like the “if I didn’t do $badthing someone else would have” line of reasoning.

▲orsorna 21 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

This was the logic for developing the atomic bomb and it was a good call.

▲josephg a minute ago | parent [-]

Was it? We nearly destroyed ourselves with nuclear weapons several times in the last century. I don't think it was a good call just because we've gotten lucky so far.

▲Aurornis 22 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Academic research has always progressed and pushed the boundaries. Is that a $badthing to you?

▲josephg 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Imagine a bag filled with marbles. We can't see inside the bag, we can just pull marbles out of the bag. Some marbles are white - they improve the world in some way. Wifi. Trains. Electricity. Some marbles are grey - they are useful but dangerous. Firearms. Nuclear weapons. Gene editing. And some marbles are black. If we pull a black marble out of the bag, we hurt or destroy ourselves.

Humanity's strategy so far has been to pull marbles out of the bag as fast as we can. And that's been working out, because most marbles are white. But we're insanely lucky we haven't had a nuclear war. The USSR's early warning systems picked up 5 incoming american missiles in 1983. They didn't fire back because one of the officers on shift didn't believe the reports (why only 5 missiles?), and he declared the reports were fake. If a different person was on shift, there's a good chance nuclear war would have broken out because of a sensor glitch. And that's far from the only instance.

And now we're improving AI capabilities as fast as we can, despite it being pretty clearly another grey ball. AI has a lot of amazing uses. But why are we rushing so much? Doesn't seem wise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1983_Soviet_nuclear_false_alar...

▲Loquebantur 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's not about merely knowing how to build a "badthing". It's about knowing why not to.

With AI, the point is who uses it for what.

Think about it like a magic wand that makes your wishes come true. Would you really want everybody to have one? Who should and who shouldn't? Who gets to decide?

▲miltonlost 13 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

And this sort of blanket argument is how you get bad science on the order of Prison experiments to Nazi scientists. Yes, academic research that pushes boundaries can be a $badthing

▲Loquebantur 18 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

You operate within the "logic" of capitalism, where no other value exists but the (short term) economic one.

AI indeed goes far beyond "autocomplete" and other nonsense. But the question is, whether it's a good idea to just let the "market" run wild with it.

Short-term capital interests don't align with the public good. AI greatly scales capability, but without anything to restrain it, that implies those non-aligned interests overwhelming society's defenses, outright destroying it in the process.

The idea of rich people being some kind of benevolent caretakers, who independently and dependably foresee and manage the consequences of their actions in everybody's best interest, is laughably wrong already.

With AI, that reality gap will swallow whatever is left.

▲hogs_get_fat 11 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The market is irrelevant. In the 28 centuries of recorded history, the human race has pursued power in it's various forms (political, military or economic), without regard to the "public good" (which is really, just a polite euphemism for the established order and those that benefit for it).

Without capitalism, you wouldn't be able to restrain AI adoption any more than the armored knights of the middle ages were able to restrain the adoption of the firearm.

▲ford 9 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Capitalism isn't the most palatable economic system, it's the one that best matches the reality of nature (competition)

I think the vast majority of the rich are greedy bastards, but IMO being rich does not imply greedy bastard 100% of the time.

▲gilrain 3 minutes ago | parent [-]

> it's the one that best matches the reality of nature (competition)

This doesn't seem right: it doesn't match the history of reality, in which capitalism has repeatedly stymied rather than fostered competition.

▲mirmor23 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Had LLMs first been presented as a "better IntelliSense", where rather than auto-completing function names, your editor can now suggest implementations, very few people would have been upset.

I'm not rooting for AI companies or hustlers that are out to ride the wave and get rich.

However your claim is just hyperbole. I've used it in cross-cutting projects to extend protocol on desktop, iot device, which involves holding premise long enough to co-develop and test. It is also fantastic in debugging multi-threaded systems.

▲Aurornis 34 minutes ago | parent [-]

This is an interesting theme that I see a lot: Some people are firmly anchored to an idea of AI capabilities that is a year or more behind the frontier.

Some times it comes from people who try out ChatGPT free tier or the Google AI summary and think it represents the state of the art.

More recently I suspect it’s from people who build their opinion based on being contrarian and cynical: They dislike the AI people and distrust everything they say. If the AI people say it’s changing the world, then the cynical and contrarian belief is to assume that the technology is actually very bad and they’re just lying to make a lot of money and retire.

These takes were more understandable in the earlier phases of AI when it really was very limited, but it’s getting harder to understand how someone can be thinking of AI as just a slightly better autocomplete or slightly better Grammarly at the end of 2026.

▲mrweasel 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> but it’s getting harder to understand how someone can be thinking of AI as just a slightly better autocomplete or slightly better Grammarly at the end of 2026.

That wasn't the point. My point was that if you had rolled LLMs out like that, as embedded technology in existing products. Slowly, over time, you'd have a lot less cynical people. I think the hostility towards AI product in large parts comes from the disruption and glancing over the negative parts. What we're doing now is the equivalent of putting millions of cars on roads which five years ago had never seem a car, only horses. We're doing so without any understanding of how that might affect society. Social media was a similar story. It was slower, yet we still didn't catch the majority of the negative consequences.

If it turns out that the people behind social media, and smart phones, don't care about e.g. peoples mental well being, then why would I trust that the people behind AI wouldn't behave the same way?

▲rhdunn 4 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As I see it there are currently 3 broad classes of LLM usage:

1. enhanced autocomplete -- either line (e.g. JetBrains small language models) or longer predictions;

2. chat -- asking questions related to the task you are doing;

3. tool assisted/agentic -- letting models interact with tools to perform tasks.

I personally find 1 & 2 helpful for my development tasks. For 3, I'm cautious of using it for several reasons:

1. lack of control of what gets sent to the model (e.g. if you have confidential user data, proprietary code and/or data, access tokens/private keys);

2. letting the models run arbitrary commands (modifying the system, deleting files, etc.);

3. not having control over the design process, formatting of the files, etc.

▲knottn 18 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

There are people whose livelihood depends on them not getting it. There are people whose worldviews depend on them not getting it. Denial is a part of grieving. There are also people who like to troll the ai maniacs because ai maniacs are easy to troll. It has been curious to me to see all this as well, smart people who seem oblivious feels strange.

▲tim333 31 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Had LLMs first been presented as a "better IntelliSense"... very few people would have been upset.

Presenting AI as something it isn't doesn't change the reality which is like the Wait But Why thing https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revol...

That was written in 2015 before LLMs were much of a thing and has been fairly spot on so far. This is not just about LLMs any more than the industrial revolution was just about steam engines.

▲wombat-man 20 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

better intellisense is how it started for me at least.

▲roenxi an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are a huge number of people involved in AI outside of the major AI companies both in smaller AI companies and lots of independent developers. They aren't having much success bringing AI to the masses and this is because they don't care enough about money and they aren't selling their ideas aggressively enough. There is this odd tendency to undersell achievements because they weren't motivated by the Right Stuff.

The AI companies are as much being pushed along by investors as they are in the driving seat, but the push is in the direction of getting real products in front of people and experimenting with this miraculous tech everywhere it could possible work.

▲ontouchstart 43 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

What would be the Right Stuff?

Ignoring the implementation details, if we treat the whole global technology world as one single AI system made up of AI companies, independent developers/researchers, and end users, what would be the training goal and evaluation?

▲geraneum an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> There are a huge number of people involved in AI outside of the major AI companies

How many, approximately?

▲i2km 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

An excellent comment. It's very true - there's a deep sickness here which causes people to flee from the inherent value (relatively modest) and the longer, more tedious work of building a sustainable company around it.

▲CodingJeebus an hour ago | parent [-]

> there's a deep sickness here which causes people to flee from the inherent value (relatively modest)

Value is simply the mutual understanding that something should cost a certain amount, and the system we've built emphasizes the need for profit above all else. When a set of companies comes along with a new, impressive technology claiming that they can automate away the white collar workforce, they're trying to capture as much value as they can.

It's not a moral sickness, it's market actors behaving rationally. Believing that people should be willing to leave money on the table because it's the right thing to do is a dead end, the entire system needs a rethink.

▲bluefirebrand an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> It's not a moral sickness, it's market actors behaving rationally. Believing that people should be willing to leave money on the table because it's the right thing to do is a dead end

I don't agree that "I am just a market actor behaving rationally" somehow absolves you of any moral duty

I'm not an ethicist or anything but I have studied quite a lot of ethical frameworks and I've never encountered one that I think would agree with this

▲mcphage 42 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> Believing that people should be willing to leave money on the table because it's the right thing to do is a dead end, the entire system needs a rethink.

I didn’t expect a full throated defense of mugging and burglary on HN this morning, but here we are.

▲pona-a an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I enthusiastically agree. I've been on this ride since GPT 2 and 3, I did start out looking at the technology in a neutral or positive light. I did not think the stewards of this technology would be so irresponsible, its consequences would rival the Stalinist purges.

No matter what practical benefits this technology might bring, if this runaway marketing campaign isn't stopped, in just a couple decades we'll see what the complete collapse of civil society looks like, a world where the institutions no longer see value in maintaining an educated democratic populous, and can relax back into the comfort of feudalism.

▲nobodyandproud an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I’m sorry, but the AI workers are as much to blame.

Or have you forgotten that Sam Altman was ousted by individuals that shared your concerns, and it was the OpenAI employees that rebelled against the board and wanted Altman back?

That HN post was infamous and nearly took down this site.

▲sneak 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The AI formula is out of the bag. The Manhattan Project is over, trinity has happened.

If it weren’t OAI and Anthropic, it would be others.

If it weren’t US companies, it would be others.

It is far too useful now to stop large scale deployment, it isn’t a matter of specific people or countries not being cautious or prudent enough. The entirety of the Earth is at issue now and there will always be people who cause the tragedy of the commons (if indeed AI turns out to be harmful in the long run, which is not remotely certain).

Look at what happened with fossil fuels. Even if the entire global west totally ceased use, there are many countries that simply will not stop because of local utility. AI is the exact same way.

▲233mhz 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> If it weren’t US companies, it would be others.

There is something deeply rotten about the US mindset though, them being American is definitely a problem.

> Look at what happened with fossil fuels.

The west had a 100 years head start, on top of that these countries are producing everything you consume, don't start pointing fingers. Chinese current co2 per capita is the same as the US in 1900

▲andsoitis 24 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> There is something deeply rotten about the US mindset

What is that “something”?

▲carlosjobim 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I remember reading about the development of neural networks in a magazine from the 1980s.

Releasing artificial intelligence for the use of all of humanity is better than it being controlled by one or more shadow groups. That's what the Americans did, and the Chinese followed in.

Had AI been invented in the 20th century, it would have been kept secret and used only by state actors to facilitate genocides at mass scales. But we live in different times.

▲hattmall 43 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

How can "AI" facilitate genocide? Like what might chatgpt have suggested that would have made the nazis more effective or the khmer rouge.

▲sneak 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Widespread mass realtime facial recognition usage is allowing governments to target and repress subsets of the population with an unprecedented scale and efficiency. ICE are flying facial recognition drones over sidewalks in downtown LA. Dissdents are having their facial geometries entered into secret databases simply based on political opinions.

▲carlosjobim 23 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Any new technology throughout history has first been used for war and genocide.

How could modern AI have helped those groups you mention in their endeavour? Really fucking easy and effectively, and you don't need a lot of imagination to think of how. From surveillance and interrogation to pinpoint determination of ethnicity and much more. Not to mention translation between human languages.

▲233mhz 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Releasing artificial intelligence for the use of all of humanity is better than it being controlled by one or more shadow groups. That's what the Americans did

Uh? In what universe are openai and anthropic not shadow groups?

▲carlosjobim an hour ago | parent [-]

Are you misunderstanding on purpose? OpenAI and Anthropic let the public use their AI models. Shadow groups would mean that people wouldn't even know about the existence of AI.

▲233mhz 27 minutes ago | parent [-]

> OpenAI and Anthropic let the public use their AI models.

Oh, how nice of them, such charitable souls...

▲carlosjobim 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

Cool snark. I said it's better that all humanity have access to use AI rather than just a few people. That's pretty nice, compared to the alternative.

But if you're an angry hacker in full on culture war witch hunter mode, then of course nobody can say something that's even slightly different than full-on hate without you interpreting that as aligning with the evil witch.

▲HarHarVeryFunny an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, the cat is out of the bag as to how to create this type of AI.

But that doesn't mean that everyone has to use it.

We're only starting to see the beginning of the negative impact of AI to the job market and society. If if turns out that allowing most jobs to be replaced by AI is bad for society and the economy (super high unemployment - nobody buying more then necessities), then wouldn't it be smarter to not do that?

If that's the case, then each country can decide for themselves.

Dario's "Machines of loving grace" UBI/foodstamp "utopia" sure doesn't sound like a recipe for success.

▲aatd86 38 minutes ago | parent [-]

Which job are worth doing and which ones you'd rather the AI do? AI should enable things that were previously impossible because of time constraints. If time is money and we were previously trading with money, we will get back to trading time. Manufacturing time for instance. Compute times. For commodities, that might be automated to some extent, I am not sure. The friction in exchanges is where the money is made and the friction here may be at the interface with the real world still.

▲customguy an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> If it weren’t OAI and Anthropic, it would be others.

Doing what? Rushing to make trillion dollar companies, rather then developing the tech and their companies in a sustainable way? I don't even know what in the original comment this would be a response to.

▲hogs_get_fat 37 minutes ago | parent [-]

Rushing towards creating machines that can give you vast amounts of military, political or economic power without regard to it's effects on the old order.

The particular form of the pursuit of power practiced by OAI and Antrophic - the creation of trillion dollar companies, is one of the most benign in recorded history. It's so unnaturally benign, that I doubt it's going to survive for much longer.