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▲ christophilus 2 hours ago

My former boss at Microsoft told me this sort of thing is a good way to get rid of your best, most employable employees. I guess he didn’t pass the memo up the chain.

▲hypfer an hour ago | parent | next [-]

The truth of the matter I think is that you do not actually need the best.

Most of the time, anyway.

As far as business is concerned, the thing often runs better with mid people with less leverage. They just do their job, don't have any ideas and you can squeeze them.

Because it's not all the best that are leaving. Just the ones not stuck with a mortgage or similar stuff. This cuts the wings of very capable people and completely strips them off their bargaining power. Which is very useful to management.

▲siva7 34 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> The truth of the matter I think is that you do not actually need the best.

Not all employees need to be the "best". But if you are a top tier company in a given field like Microsoft, you need the best minds to stay top tier, otherwise you will descend. But on the other hand you don't need the lower tier performers to stay top tier except for scaling reasons because the supply for top tier performers is a very small pool...

▲hypfer 25 minutes ago | parent [-]

You can still keep some of the best minds, but you do not need them on every team and every project.

I might be wrong, but I doubt that these mass buyouts were also offered to those that are strategically relevant. Though I guess that can happen if that specific branch of the management tree is bad at their jobs

▲siva7 22 minutes ago | parent [-]

That's true. Other ways are to offer "secret" bonuses and other perks to the talent you want to keep. If the management / department wants to keep you no matter what, you will clearly notice this despite mass layoffs.

▲selicos 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What management thinks is good and what employees, especially engineering type employees, think is good are usually counter.

The execs want to run the most profit to cost they can squeeze out, usually short term. The employees see the value in the senior and knowledge rich staff with higher costs long term.

▲hypfer 26 minutes ago | parent [-]

Arguably, management might be more often than not more right in their assessment.

Which hurts me to say. But engineers tend to make for terrible businessmen. (There are exceptions of course, and the opposite is _even worse_)

▲nashashmi 44 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

That is a rule for a good project manager. When work is simple, you don't need bright people. You just need average guys. But when work is cutting edge, you need very talented people.

I think the efforts on cutting edge works has been reduced and redirected to more market-dominating trends like LLM optimizations. This is a bet. Cut off the finger for a stronger arm. And I think this bet will fail. But I thought the same about this new Gemini after Bard, and boy I was wrong.

▲Waterluvian an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I dunno how prevalant this term is, but people at my last robotics company called it the "dead sea effect." Those who can, leave. Those who can't, hang on.

▲nmstoker an hour ago | parent | next [-]

It didn't seem that obvious a term as you described it here, but a bit of googling gave the background:

It's effectively that the more desirable elements leave, the less desirable parts stay behind and get more concentrated... So the bad employees are the salt in the dead sea

It was coined by this chap https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Webster#Career

▲MisterMunchkin 26 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You get the same with government jobs. Anyone smart leaves and gets a better job, so you’re left with the dregs.

▲linuxftw 38 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I termed it "Sh*t floats" when I was in the Navy.

▲ben_w an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My dad told me his bosses were very surprised when he eagerly accepted a similar deal. IIRC, he was about 60 at the time, so would have had about 6 years early retirement given what the pension age was back then.

▲darksaints 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well they’re the ones that cost the most money!

▲lenerdenator an hour ago | parent [-]

They're also the ones that create the most money.

Ultimately, you can only take equity away from people like that for so long. We're taking the people who actually create the value and firing them so that we can satisfy the hangers-on, meaning shareholders who often 1) don't know they even own MS and 2) are often diversified as to make a real problem with Microsoft not a dealbreaker for their financial goals.

▲logicchains an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I guess unfortunately there isn't an easy way to just "only fire the employees responsible for making Teams suck".

▲DeepYogurt 44 minutes ago | parent [-]

In theory that's a manager's responsibility, but managers get (effectively) punished for firing people so that never happens in practice.

▲catchnear4321 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

there’s a difference between a memo passed and a memo read. (let alone a memo acted upon.)

▲dominotw an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Market is horrible even for 'best employees' . Best employees arent that different from mid employees these days because everyone is slinging the same slop.

▲siva7 27 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Not true, the market is exceptional for the best in tech. The problem arises when some employees think they are the best - despite the facts not lining up.

▲theossuary 12 minutes ago | parent [-]

I don't believe you. I literally can't get an interview, but I joined a mature startup through a subcontracting gig to make ends meet, and a month in they're asking if they can just hire me. The hiring process is broken.

▲siva7 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

You were promoted to perm employee a month in. How does that contradict my earlier statement? The broken hiring process in tech is something entirely different - it was broken 10 years ago, 20 years ago, nothing new

▲bushbaba 43 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes and No. If you are a citizen and have “AI” experience there’s plenty of startups offering base salaries in excess of the average Microsoft total comp.

▲red75prime an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Maybe something has changed between now and then? Say, some kind of a technology that allows to select eligible employees better.

▲burnte an hour ago | parent [-]

Definitely not. We are no better at finding good employees than we ever were. It's the human biases that make it bad, not the technology.

▲red75prime an hour ago | parent [-]

"We" as in "industry in general" or "we" as in "HR at my company"? Although, I'd be more interested in what Microsoft does.