Is that relevant? Kotlin fully exists without the JVM, as requested.

dathanb82 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Sort of? The kotlin standard library yes, but it’s pretty rare to write an app with only the standard library. It feels like you’re dismissing the Java interop as a secondary benefit, but for most uses of Kotlin it’s probably more important to project success than the language itself. So I think it’s accurate that without the JVM Kotlin would be essentially dead.

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jayd16 an hour ago | parent [-]

> dismissing the Java interop as a secondary benefit

I mean, I don't really care about any of that. I was just responding to the (likely unserious) technical critique that there is no Kotlin VM. As for whether Kotlin as a language would be popular without the JVM, that's a different question.

	▲	pjmlp 27 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		I stand by it until Kotlin Native is taken seriously, other than porting Android apps into iOS.

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pjmlp 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

A subset of Kotlin has a native backend, not good enough to power JetBrains products, which still require Java Virtual Machine.

It is so good, that JetBrains themselves rather use Rust or C++ for native code libraries on their IDEs, and not officially supported on the Android NDK.

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jayd16 an hour ago | parent [-]

So the goal post is JetBrains has to rewrite their stack in Kotlin native for Kotlin to not need the JVM?

	▲	pjmlp 31 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		The goal post is that Kotlin is able to stand on its own, without any dependency of JVM ecosystem, for its evolution as ecosystem. A sign of maturity that Kotlin is grown enough to leave its parents foster home, and stand on its own without pay checks from its folks.
	▲	oldsecondhand an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Eating your own dogfood has always been a milestone of maturity.