> Of all the major tech companies around the world, Apple has the most incentive to actually deliver privacy, and has the best track record.

Honestly, based on what? That they haven't been caught?

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vallerie 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's a major selling point, for one. They actively sell their products on privacy to the average person and an exposé would harm their image quite significantly.

That said they are not perfect - e.g their wording in their own tracking consent prompts vs the ones they force on others.

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Rohansi 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> It's a major selling point, for one.

That's marketing. Do you always trust everything in marketing material?

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stouset 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Apple has done more than literally any other technology company to limit their own ability to ever access your personal data.

Always missing from the paranoid lunatic side of this discussion: what devices do you use? I presume you do all your computing on an abacus?

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Rohansi an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Personally I don't deny those claims. I question their motive. Most people don't care much about anything except camera/microphone/location access, so why invest so much into engineering all of these solutions? Are they just morally superior to others? Or are they using the reputation they created for themselves to justify locking down their platforms? Because there are things only Apple can be trusted with?

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HumblyTossed an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's paranoia now to question a 4 Trillion dollar company?

I presume truth and facts are important, no?

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HumblyTossed 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Apple has done more than literally any other technology company to limit their own ability to ever access your personal data.

I mean, it's what they _say_ they do. Do we know?

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alsetmusic 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

They invited security researchers to inspect their implementation of Private Cloud Compute. I expect there’d be a news story worth a good amount of traffic if they said it and didn’t allow people to do so. That there has been no such story suggests that there hasn’t been scandal.

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Brendinooo 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

What's the claim here, that they are doing nefarious things that are undetectable? Because we know that this is probably the most scrutinized tech company on the planet, and we know that they've been caught and penalized for errors in the past.

Do you have any evidence to present, or is this pure FUD?

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HumblyTossed an hour ago | parent [-]

If you read what I have written, I have not made a single claim. I'm only asking if people put faith in Apples claims because they're, well, Apple, or do we _know_ their claims are valid.

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Brendinooo an hour ago | parent [-]

Having spent a lot of time in the open source world, I'm aware of the concept that I can never know for sure if I can't see the code. (And even if I could, that wouldn't tell us with certainly how that the data that code creates/captures is used by the people using it.)

But I do think that, in general, Apple tends to be the least-bad actor among its mainstream competitors: its primary business model does not depend on harvesting and selling data, and it has made this value proposition a part of its marketing, and people high up in the company have spoken about ways that they personally value it. And, for any story about ways in which Apple has failed here, there are certainly twice as many for any other company they compete with.

I mean, step back: Who cares more about my privacy - Apple or Google? Apple or Roku? Can anyone seriously argue the latter for either?

> I'm only asking if people put faith in Apples claims because they're, well, Apple, or do we _know_ their claims are valid.

If we _know_, then there would be no need for faith. Given the lack of options and the lack of certainty, people must place their faith somewhere (or take on a lot of technical burden to roll their own); given everything I've seen, it's more reasonable to place faith in Apple than basically anyone else in "Big Tech" in this regard.

(But again: if there's a product out there that is very similar to Apple TV in every way except that it is more private: please tell me what that product is. I'd be thrilled to consider it.)

	▲	HumblyTossed a minute ago \| parent [-]
		> I mean, step back: Who cares more about my privacy - Apple or Google? Apple or Roku? Can anyone seriously argue the latter for either? I don't know. But I don't care about Google or Roku. I'm simply asking, are we sure Apple keeps things as private as they say. HN apparently hates to question Apple...

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dd8601fn an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I trust that when they don’t do it perfectly, a million nerds are going to scream “finally! Gotcha!”

…while running far worse stuff themselves, the whole time.

	▲	microtonal 34 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Yet, most people fall for the E2E-encrypted iMessage story, while the Messages are only encrypted at rest when you have iCloud Backup enabled (I’d guess most people) and ADP disabled (I’d guess most people). The fact that I have ADP enabled doesn’t matter because most people I communicate with don’t have ADP enabled (or know what it is). This is all only mentioned in the footnote of an iCloud security document [1]. Apple cares about your privacy, so much that they made a backdoor through bad defaults, well in reach of the CLOUD Act. [1] Footnote 9 in https://support.apple.com/en-us/102651

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flanz_10 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No, but when they make claims in marketing material and then lie, it opens them to huge liability. So there is an enforcement path.

	▲	2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		[deleted]

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0o_MrPatrick_o0 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Apple perceives itself as a prestige brand. That perception depends upon consistently high execution and a perception that they’re trying to create beautiful experiences for users.

They want the device to be a mechanism for you to purchase things. Hence the “Apple card” and all the hullabaloo around that. You’ll only use your phone if you perceive it to be secure. Apple’s investments in Secure Enclave’s, sandboxing are all directly linked to their belief that this will help the consumer perceive the safety of the product- and again, it goes back to the perception of the brand.

Quality craftsmanship has properties that outsiders can perceive- even if they don’t understand it. Apple makes those investments.

Google- well, they just make things and then abandon them. Android’s bizzaro world open source is a chaotic mess that reflects the lack of discipline in Google’s leadership.

	▲	HumblyTossed an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Yes, they make great devices. I have many. But do we _know_ that what they claim is fact? And I don't know what Google has to do with this.