What's the claim here, that they are doing nefarious things that are undetectable? Because we know that this is probably the most scrutinized tech company on the planet, and we know that they've been caught and penalized for errors in the past.

Do you have any evidence to present, or is this pure FUD?

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HumblyTossed 3 hours ago | parent [-]

If you read what I have written, I have not made a single claim. I'm only asking if people put faith in Apples claims because they're, well, Apple, or do we _know_ their claims are valid.

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Brendinooo 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Having spent a lot of time in the open source world, I'm aware of the concept that I can never know for sure if I can't see the code. (And even if I could, that wouldn't tell us with certainly how that the data that code creates/captures is used by the people using it.)

But I do think that, in general, Apple tends to be the least-bad actor among its mainstream competitors: its primary business model does not depend on harvesting and selling data, and it has made this value proposition a part of its marketing, and people high up in the company have spoken about ways that they personally value it. And, for any story about ways in which Apple has failed here, there are certainly twice as many for any other company they compete with.

I mean, step back: Who cares more about my privacy - Apple or Google? Apple or Roku? Can anyone seriously argue the latter for either?

> I'm only asking if people put faith in Apples claims because they're, well, Apple, or do we _know_ their claims are valid.

If we _know_, then there would be no need for faith. Given the lack of options and the lack of certainty, people must place their faith somewhere (or take on a lot of technical burden to roll their own); given everything I've seen, it's more reasonable to place faith in Apple than basically anyone else in "Big Tech" in this regard.

(But again: if there's a product out there that is very similar to Apple TV in every way except that it is more private: please tell me what that product is. I'd be thrilled to consider it.)

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HumblyTossed 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> I mean, step back: Who cares more about my privacy - Apple or Google? Apple or Roku? Can anyone seriously argue the latter for either?

I don't know. But I don't care about Google or Roku. I'm simply asking, are we sure Apple keeps things as private as they say.

HN apparently hates to question Apple...

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Brendinooo an hour ago | parent | next [-]

If you read my lengthy reply and came away with "this guy hates to question Apple", you are not reading my reply at all.

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stouset an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

HN hates when people are “just asking questions” but haven’t bothered to make any attempt whatsoever to answer those questions.

Yes, Apple has actually put work into designing, building, and shipping secure enclaves. Yes, they have put a gargantuan amount of work into PCC to uphold the claims they make about its privacy. Yes, they employ differential privacy. Yes, they have shipped a feature that enables privacy-conscious users to be the only ones to hold the keys to their iCloud account. And on and on and on. Nothing will ever be enough for you.

You aren’t asking these questions in good faith. If you were, you’d have your answers already.

	▲	HumblyTossed 13 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		> HN hates when people are “just asking questions” but haven’t bothered to make any attempt whatsoever to answer those questions. I have and don't see much evidence at all except a bunch of influencers saying Apple is tops in privacy. Apple has plenty of default settings gaps that allow THEM to collect your data. They capitulate in certain markets. And who knows what Trump made them do?