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▲ Woman who rescued injured crow keeps getting 'thank-you gifts' from birds [video](youtube.com)
262 points by johnnyApplePRNG 3 days ago | 67 comments
▲ngruhn 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I saw some video once about intelligence tests on crows. In one experiment they had a tall but thin glass of water with some treat floating on the surface but it was too low for the crow to reach. So the crow started dropping rocks into the glass, causing the water level to rise, until it could reach the treat.

I was so impressed, I wanted to replicate that. I went to a park around the corner with some nuts to befriend some crows. My plan was to just feed them for a while so they would trust me. But after a few days I had flock of crows following me everywhere through the city. That was a bit too much.

▲shoobiedoo an hour ago | parent | next [-]

My dad had a friend who worked at a remote logging area and tossed his bread crust to a raven that was perched by the road. Next day, the raven swooped past his truck as he drove past. Eventually he stopped and dug something out of his lunchbox and gave it to him.

Then every day for months, he would just hold a snack in his fingers and the raven would swoop down and grab it as he drove past. Pretty amazing to think about. That level of foresight, adherence to a routine, not giving up (days off, etc).

▲helterskelter2 38 minutes ago | parent [-]

I knew somebody who had logged in Alaska and they swore that this one town had a huge crow who would hang out by the town's welcome sign and...welcome the visitors. Apparently crows who spend enough time around people will sometimes mimic human speech and this particular crow had been taught to welcome people in.

▲bob1029 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Crows are natures version of the flock camera network. I made the mistake of regularly throwing a cup of premium bird seed into the yard. Once they locked onto this activity I got in trouble for stopping. They would do as you describe. I'd see them standing on top of my truck as I walk out of the grocery store.

▲prox an hour ago | parent [-]

Only feed them away from your house. These are smart birds, you don’t want them tracking you home ;)

▲samlinnfer an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That’s an Aesop’s fable (the Crow and the Pitcher).

https://read.gov/aesop/012.html

▲rendall 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yes! And it also was an intentional study in animal cognition. Christopher Bird and Nathan Emery at the University of Cambridge decided to test whether birds could actually do what Aesop described. Their study, published in Current Biology in August 2009, was titled: "Rooks Use Stones to Raise the Water Level to Reach a Floating Worm."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096098220...

There was a related study in 2014, "Using the Aesop's Fable Paradigm to Investigate Causal Understanding of Water Displacement by New Caledonian Crows."

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjourn...

▲nilslindemann an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Speaking of animal intelligence: I have always been impressed by the short-term memory of chimpanzees, which outperforms that of humans:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM5QS_adrIQ

The explanation given by scientists is that chimpanzees need this type of memory to keep a clear mental map of their surroundings while climbing. Still, spectacular.

▲krtkush 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The crow and rocks experiment was a staple “moral story” when I was a child in India. Interesting that someone actually validated it!

▲reddozen 2 hours ago | parent [-]

This a classic story from Aesop's Fables. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crow_and_the_Pitcher It's been passed down for a few thousand years.

▲mrheosuper 42 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I had flock of crows following me everywhere through the city

That sound so cool, like main character in your story.

▲Lukas_Skywalker 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

One of my favourites as well. Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2IBayVsbz8

▲kgwgk 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Seems the setup for one of those “the crows have eyes” movies.

https://www.thecrowshaveeyes.com/

▲avhception 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I saw that video of the experiment with the thin glass as well, it's been years since then but I still tell people about it. Crows are awesome!

▲Hamuko 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

My desire to befriend some crows is only increased by this comment.

▲ngruhn an hour ago | parent | next [-]

haha :D but consider they were not just on some rooftop nearby. They were quite close. I wouldn't mind per se but the social cost... I think it was obvious to everyone in the streets that these birds were following me. I didn't want to be the bird guy.

▲maverickpilot an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I really tried to befriend some crows but in the end I only got a pigeon ... and in-between I had some really destructive ravens.

▲maxbond a few seconds ago | parent | prev | next [-]

'tux1968 shared a great story about helping a crow a few years ago.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41405773

▲rglover 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Birds are wild. Found a chickadee fledgling in the road earlier this year and nursed him for a couple days before we found a legitimate rehab. Little guy would just hop out of his box, perch on your finger, and sing as loud as he could until you fed him scrambled eggs. Really got me thinking about how special birds are. We have a hummingbird that visits and he'll do stuff like fly into the garage if the door is open, hover and stare at you for 1-2 seconds, and then take off. It's happened so many times I've stopped being startled by the sudden brrrr noise you hear from their wings flapping (they're so fast they can show up in the blink of an eye).

The bumblebees do something similar (I've oddly nursed three different bees with sugar water—all just happened to be in my field of vision crawling around on the ground but not flying). Now you get a bumble or two per day checking in with a quick hover and bob kind of movement before shooting off into the distance.

Does anyone know of any research into this or books identifying behavior like this?

▲Krei-se 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sqnxlzLakU

This is more about beehaiviour research and playing with your balls, but the basic idea seems to be that even "small" brains do the same stuff the big brains do - like forming relationships, playing for fun, using tools, etc.

▲Bluestein an hour ago | parent [-]

> beehaiviour

Heh :)

PS. "Hive" five I guess?

▲rramadass 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Does anyone know of any research into this or books identifying behavior like this?

"Ethology" is the study of the behaviour of non-human animals - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethology (see "References" for books).

An old soviet-era book, Science for Everyone: Ethology, What Animals Do and Why? is a great read on this - https://mirtitles.org/2013/10/08/science-for-everyone-etholo... I had read this when i was young and it has always stayed with me. It gives a nice overview of the domain and is highly recommended.

▲the-mitr 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You will like reading Niko Tinbergen's Curious Naturalists

▲kulahan 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Crows are somewhat unique as an animal in that they've got the ability to pass information off to other members of the flock, and to continue passing information down through generations as necessary. The bird saved in this story, if it has offspring, will likely teach them that she is a safe and beloved human. At the very least, there's lots of research into this topic. I can't speak to the others, sorry.

▲skrellm 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Crows are somewhat unique as an animal in that they've got the ability to pass information off to other members of the flock, and to continue passing information down through generations as necessary.

Not that unique. My grandfather was a forester, his favourite time passing was to whistle back bird's song, changing only a little bit at a time, turning it slowly into something totally different. The changed song was passed to other birds and offsprings no probs.

The result was quite hilarious, you went to the primeval woods and you could hear wild birds singing the Für Elise... I bet it freaked out ornithologists!

(My granddad died about 30 years ago, sadly the bird "dialect" has vanished since, but I still have some old tapes in the attic.)

▲cbolton 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Please digitize and post some of these recordings!

▲avhception 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is an absolutely beautiful story! My mother always whistles back at the birds, but mostly just tries to imitate their songs. But she used to play "Für Elise" on the piano when I was a child :)

▲bambax 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes! This is a heartwarming story. But the opposite is true. If you happen to piss off a crow, your life will become very difficult. You might as well move towns.

▲thedreammachine 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Here in Australia, magpies do something similar but in a bad way. During nesting season they'll swoop you, remember your face, and keep targeting you. My daughter got attacked two weeks ago.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-30/magpie-swooping-seaso...

▲jdthedisciple 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That makes me wonder: If you happened to piss them off, is there a way to appease them again sort of by redeeming yourself and thereby amend the diplomatic relationship?

I feel like there's gotta be

▲KajMagnus 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Have a friend, in a mask, kidnap one of the crows. Then you appear, and set it free, and give it cookies. (And your friend stops using the mask.)

▲ajb 3 hours ago | parent [-]

This makes the assumption that crows can identify people only by the face. It's quite likely they could recognise something else.

▲marssaxman 2 hours ago | parent [-]

That is not so much an assumption as a conclusion, backed up by research:

https://urban.uw.edu/news/crows-hold-grudges-against-individ...

https://crowlingo.org/journal/marzluff-mask-experiments-expl...

▲Gravityloss 8 minutes ago | parent [-]

I think the person meant that it might not be for the mask-wearer. They might be targeted by crows even when the mask comes off because the crows might still recognize them from their walking style or body odor or voice etc.

▲b3lvedere 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

So we need to research if we can apologize to crows.

▲secretsatan 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

As a child we had a duck that would come nest in our garden for many years, it was really quite friendly, and would come up the patio doors every morning to beg for some food, didn't seem to be afraid of us. She would have her little ducklings follow her around the garden until they eventually went off to some lake not too far away.

Our cats were absolutely terrified of it.

▲novaRom 10 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Some limited intelligence but strictly focused on the environment and goal. Similarly, local 27B models often outperform large 816B (42B active) models in different tasks.

▲prmoustache 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My ex mother in law bonded with a crow. She had it spending time on her shoulder whenever she was spending time in her garden.

It was quite a sight, especially when she was wearing dark clothing.

A few centuries before people would have had her burned for being a witch.

▲so-cal-schemer 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Somehow, I came across this just yesterday:

What Ravens Do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RGmh_C3Kyg

And this short piece by the same director while looking for the other:

This short film documents six weeks in the life of a family of ravens in the Verdugo Mountains near Los Angeles. I first noticed two baby ravens who were very small and just out of the nest. This movie covers this family as their parents prepare them to go off and live life on their own.

The Ravens of Verdugo Vance Crofoot 375 views Jul 30, 2021 LOS ANGELES

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbW2LmWtQ7g

▲signa11 23 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

in one of the most interesting book "Number: The Language Of Science" by Mr. Tobias Dantzig (yes _that_ Dantzig, father of Mr. George Dantzig, the one who discovered Simplex Algorithm) talks about the "number sense", and has the following (heavily paraphrased) anecdote about a squire who want to shoot a crow that has nested in the watchtower of his estate:

    Whenever he goes into the tower, the crow flies off and won’t come back until he has 
    left. So he tries a trick: two men go in, one comes out, and the other stays hidden. 
    The crow isn’t fooled and waits until the second man leaves too. The same happens with 
    three men and with four. Only with five men, four leaving and one staying, does the 
    crow lose track and return to the nest.
His conclusion is that the crow’s number sense tops out at about four.
▲WithinReason 13 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Related, my favourite section of the book King Solomon's Ring from Konrad Lorenz:

I have already mentioned that jackdaws remember for a long time the creature that once triggered their rattling reaction—that is, anyone who has once attacked a jackdaw. This posed a serious obstacle when it came to ringing the chicks hatched in my colony. If I took them out of the nest to fasten the aluminum Rossitten rings onto their legs, the old jackdaws inevitably noticed and raised an unbridled rattling concert. Well then, what was I to do so that the birds would not fear me forever because of the ringing, since this fear would have immeasurably hindered my work? The solution was exceedingly simple: a disguise! Well, what kind? That was simple too. Lying right at hand in a chest in the attic—and suiting my purposes very well, even though under normal circumstances we only use it on the sixth of December—was a splendid, all-fur Krampus costume, complete with a long-tongued, horned mask that covered the entire head, and a huge, fluffy, stiffly protruding devil's tail hanging from it.

What would you imagine, gentle reader, if on a fine June day you heard a wild rattling coming from a high, peaked roof, and upon looking up, saw the Devil himself—with horns, tail, and hooves, his long tongue hanging out obviously from the heat—climbing from chimney to chimney in the midst of a swarm of deafeningly rattling black birds? I think the overall impression would this time distract your attention from the fact that Satan was using a pair of flat-nose pliers to fasten Rossitten identification rings onto the legs of jackdaw chicks, and then carefully placing the little birds back into their nest. Even I only noticed after finishing the ringing that people had gathered in a dense crowd on the main street of the village, staring at me with the exact same stunned terror as the Whitsun excursionists had from behind the fence back then. Except that had I introduced myself, the whole exercise would have lost its point, which is why I merely gave them a friendly wag of my devil's tail and vanished through the attic window.

▲0898 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Whenever I see a story about how clever crows are, I'm reminded of that guy who gave the TED talk about crows collecting rubbish after sporting events and picking up coins in return for food. Turned out he made it all up.

▲Matumio 2 minutes ago | parent [-]

[delayed]

▲simianwords 3 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Its interesting how this woman can go this far for a crow but still eat meat everyday.

▲kylehotchkiss 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I appreciate your AI (Avian Intelligence) contribution to HN.

▲skrellm 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

LOL, man, you made my day! Thank you!

(ps. There's a new episode of Mini Fantasy Theater I haven't seen yet, hurray! https://www.davidrevoy.com/tag/minifantasytheater)

▲kitd 40 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Be careful what you wish for. They may start learning to code.

▲lukeify an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There's something beautifully eloquent about how a bundle of feathers may be one of this person's most cherished gifts they ever receive, no amount of money can match that.

▲isolli 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Crows reach fabulous levels of (animal) intelligence with a brain that is a fraction of the size of the brain of great apes. I wonder what progress has been made in studying the differences in organisation between the two.

▲xeonmc 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Bird brains are on 2nm process nodes while mammals are 32nm chips

▲ijidak 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Lol

▲lxgr 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They apparently evolved intelligence separately from mammals: https://www.wired.com/story/intelligence-evolved-at-least-tw...

▲ajb 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well, it has been shown that birds have twice the density of neurons to mammals, and their brain is larger as a proportion of body mass: https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1517131113

So their brain can be equivalent to a much larger primate.

▲Markoff 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Crows reach fabulous levels of (animal) intelligence with a brain that is a fraction of the size of the brain of great apes.

Crows have a higher raw brain-to-body mass ratio (about 2.7% for ravens) compared to adult humans (about 1.9%), so not exactly surprising they are smart.

▲b112 an hour ago | parent [-]

While interesting, are the brain cells smaller, scaled down with body size? If not, it's not entirely indicative of an increased brain size compared to humans.

▲Markoff 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

my point was their brain is not really a fraction of size when you compare it to their body mass, and anyway bigger brain doesn't really mean smarter animal necessarily, elephants are not that smart, so it's not really about size whether scaled or not

▲tristanMatthias 9 minutes ago | parent [-]

Why is the ratio important? Wouldn’t it be what the brain is capable of doing, determined by “wrinkles”? (Apparently the true indicator of intelligence, at least for humans). I’d imagine the bigger the brain in absolute terms, the more wrinkles, but who knows.

▲b112 6 minutes ago | parent [-]

It is indeed determined by wrinkles, so listen to your parents, they have more of them. (Sorry, I'm sorry, please forgive)

▲TheWrongGuy 34 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This site's Tony Soprano moment

▲ChrisRR an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why does this post not allow me to vote on it?

▲logicallee 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

this is prohibited content.

▲hmontazeri 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is special. Thanks for sharing. Warmed my heart.

▲hypfer 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Obligatory "Rick & Morty did it first"

▲johnnyApplePRNG 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I submit this days ago, not sure why it says I submit it 5 hours ago ... but sure ... change my submission time like it's completely meaningless.

▲kristianp 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It would have been in the 2nd chance pool. https://news.ycombinator.com/pool

Here's the announcement post. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308

▲DANmode 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Do you want folks in the community to see and discuss it, or do you care about some sort of credit?

▲bell-cot 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It's the Second-Chance Pool feature. HN shows the original submission time on some other pages. Such as here -

https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=johnnyApplePRNG

- and here -

https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=youtube.com&kind=stor...