| ▲ | fps-hero a day ago |
| Banks and payment providers (Visa Mastercard AMX) provide services beyond simply a store of wealth and a mechanism to transfer it. Actually 2FA, hardware biometrics, behaviour based fraud prevention and personal confirmation of suspicious transactions. If you’re using credit they can refund fraudulent transactions, and there is the chargeback mechanism. This is probably banking system dependent, but in AUS there is a refund mechanism for mistaken/fraudulent traditional bank transactions. BTC has effectively none of the safety net, and humans are fallible. We need the safety net. It’s the hugest barrier to adoption. Exchanges do a far better job of managing the risks than trusting your wealth to a hardware wallet. |
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| ▲ | miki123211 a day ago | parent | next [-] |
| In financial systems with a basis in law, no transaction is ever final. It doesn't matter what the protocol says or what the technology is capable of, if the judge says that the transaction must be reversed, you get it reversed, even if that means delivering cash in briefcases or something like that. In systems with a basis in technology, final means final. If the North Koreans take your money, your money is taken. This piece from Patrick mcKenzie explains this well https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/episodes/the-900m-wire... |
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| ▲ | rlpb 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > if the judge says that the transaction must be reversed, you get it reversed, even if that means delivering cash in briefcases or something like that So if I pay cash for something, I can get it back if a judge orders the counterparty to do so. Why is cryptocurrency not the same? Can I not go to a court and get an order, exactly the same? Of course I may not know the counterparty's identity or they may be in a hostile jurisdiction, but how is that different to cash that has escaped my jurisdiction? | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > If the North Koreans take your money, your money is taken If you wire your money to North Korea, forget about it for a week, and then ask a court to intervene you aren’t getting your funds back. | | |
| ▲ | kasey_junk an hour ago | parent [-] | | Are there any American banks that will let you wire money to North Korea? | | |
| ▲ | JumpCrisscross an hour ago | parent [-] | | No. But pretty much any American bank will let you wire to a new Chinese or Singaporean account that sweeps funds every evening to other jurisdiction. |
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| ▲ | AnthonyMouse 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > In systems with a basis in technology, final means final. If the North Koreans take your money, your money is taken. This seems obviously not true. If someone in New York steals your money then courts in New York can order them to give it back even if it's Bitcoin. If they don't comply then they get held in contempt until they do or the police seize their computer with the keys on it etc. If the person who stole it is in North Korea then the courts with jurisdiction would be the ones in North Korea, which may not be to your advantage, but how is it any different from what happens after the money was transferred to a bank in North Korea? Or, for that matter, what happens if someone in North Korea has the stolen money deposited into a US account and then spends it before you get around to reversing the transaction? The problem isn't what kind of technology you use, it's that someone can transfer stolen assets into a jurisdiction that won't help you get them back. Regardless of what payment system you use, they can get the same effect by using the stolen money to buy gold bullion or similar and have it shipped to them in their jurisdiction, and once it crosses the border they're not giving it back. |
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| ▲ | lrvick a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I have worked for and/or audited the majority of exchanges, that mostly white-label a much smaller number of players. I have yet to see a single one, not one, that had a system of custody that did not allow any one of hundreds of people, most not even employees, to walk away with all of the funds. There are no standards for security that apply to crypto custodians and the mostly fail to do the bare minimums. If you use even a top ten custodian, operate under the assumption that the funds are in multi billion dollar plaintext wallets sitting on AWS servers the whole team has ssh access to from the same laptops they "npm install" random shit to all day. Honestly if you do not feel confident custodying crypto yourself, you should probably not own any. |
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| ▲ | user43928 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | And if you do feel confident, you probably shouldn't own crypto either. Even if you are not hacked, or otherwise lose access to the funds, they are not unlikely to become worthless simply due to the system with the stable coins collapsing. The liquidity can easily disappear, much more so than with Fiat currency or other assets linked to real economies. You cannot protect yourself from being scammed in that way, even if you do hold on to your keys. | | |
| ▲ | lrvick 10 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Good to hedge bets. The value of Fiat can go to zero at any time too. Especially when leadership is always talking about printing trillions of dollars to give every citizen checks. |
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| ▲ | ameliaquining a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The safety net makes you less secure against the U.S. government, but more secure against everyone else. That's the right choice for almost all users, but I still think it's at least kind of good that people have a choice. |
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| ▲ | motionlessveloc a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You sure about that last sentence? https://de.fi/rekt-database |
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| ▲ | fps-hero a day ago | parent [-] | | I’m not saying they are perfect, but on aggregate they are better than hardware wallets. Legally they will be responsible if your money is lost. They are about as close as you can get to the type of legal assurances provided by a bank. | | |
| ▲ | fps-hero a day ago | parent [-] | | Anacdote, I have a friend who is a locksmith. I needed his services one day, gave him a call, and it turned out his day job had evolved since I last talked to him 5 years ago. Basically, he was now just a safe cracker. He is a a locksmith, but 100% of his full time hours are cracking safes. He didn’t even carry around the stuff in his van to repin a lock. He gave me mates rates but the shop had to do it. This man was attending multiple callouts, per day, to crack into a safe. Because of, you guessed it, human fallibility. In a city with with millions of people, basically a hundreds of people needed a single locksmiths service because they had locked themselves out of there own “personal store of wealth”. I’ve heard zero such examples through traditional banking, with the exception of stolen cards. | | |
| ▲ | eichin 6 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | ... this sounds like the "use random password, discard it, always log in via the email-recovery path" approach, applied to the physical world :-) | |
| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | a day ago | parent | prev [-] |
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