I sometimes run across comments where someone says they want an open-source router. I wonder if this is a viable idea for someone to start as a small company. What makes me hesitant is that, first, it looks like this already exists in several wireless and non-wireless routers (like the GL.iNet Flint or OpenWrt One), and second, I assume hackers would just make their own.

I have been flashing DD-WRT to my routers for many years. My current setup is an Archer C9 that connects via cable to an Archer C8, which then wirelessly bridges to an R7000. All of them run DD-WRT. If I had "fun money," I would buy a low-power SFF PC with dual NICs, run OPNsense or OpenWrt, and use the wireless routers strictly as access points. Since I don't have that much to spend, I look for older DD-WRT friendly routers, usually under $30, on Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace, and flash them myself.

I see that Ubiquiti and MikroTik make quality routers with proprietary OSes for around $65 new. Protectli and Netgate offer pfSense routers starting at $259.00. The GL.iNet Flint 2 is $169.00, and the OpenWrt One is $89.

According to ResellBot (because eBay now requires a login to see sold listings with prices), the sold "DD-WRT Routers" generally go for under $160. These include the WRT3200ACM, Netgear AC1750, Linksys EA9300, and Linksys R7350.

When I asked an AI how I would go about judging interest, building, raising funds, and manufacturing, it seems doable but expensive (said $125,000 minimum in total made up of $30,000 for regulatory approval, engineering and protoyping $10,000+) and time-consuming just to get to a "golden prototype" for demos.

So if I were a "hacker" and wanted an open-source router, depending on my funds, I would either:

1. Flash DD-WRT to an existing router (used or new).

2. Buy one with it already installed, like the OpenWrt One or a Protectli device.

3. Get an SFF PC and build my own.

I remember when some comments about DropBox said it was a waste because any hacker could make that. I also know DropBox was marketed to the average person and businesses. I don't really see how a hacker friendly router could take off like that unless hackers are choosing the hardware and setting up the networks for average people. And I assume that most people setting up the networks want different qualities like brand name recognition, ease and speed of purchasing equipment (Walmart or BestBuy), and the ability to point a customer or family member to the number of solid reviews and articles saying it a good router to qualify their choices.

So, do you actually want a router that you can buy with DD-WRT pre-installed?

My idea is one step further: selling the device with various ad-blocking and user-selectable tiers of security configuration included. Stop your devices spying on you, detect/notify if you have any infected devices on your network. That kind of thing.

Similarly though, there's limited appeal to those who aren't already capable of setting it up themselves.

I'm still slowly pursuing this because I believe in it, whether it's profitable or not.

Edited to add: Part of what I'm setting up: https://lists.uninvitedactivity.com/DNS/, a vague explainer here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49990394

I used to use dd-wrt, but I later settled on ASUS routers, and installing "ASUS Merlin" firmware on them.

I find ASUS hardware high quality in general. And using an open-source project like ASUS Merlin means the pain-points and limitations that I would face with stock firmware have been resolved to (at least to satisfactory extent) when I need reach for the hacker type configurations.

No, I want a router with OpenWrt pre-installed.

So I buy GL.iNet routers, which come with OpenWrt pre-installed.

I want it, in the same way I want a laptop with Linux. I can install it myself, and I already have done, but I wish the option was viable for most others, so that more of the market is open source.

For routers, the only realistic way that can happen is by getting some big vendor to adopt ddwrt or openwrt to offload (some of) the job of writing the firmware. And even then, most people use their ISP provided router. A niche vendor supplying preflashed routers isn't going to make a dent.

The OpenWrt One is really not a great piece of hardware. No 6GHz, and only two Ethernet ports, one of which is only 1Gbit. The latest GL.iNet products are apparently better, but also apparently don't run stock OpenWrt, only a fork of it. In other words, there's still plenty of room in the market for good routers with open-source firmware.

I don't think it will work as a business. The people who want dd-wrt will just install it themselves, not pay additional for it to already be installed. However, I do think you may be able to sell an ad-blocking router with ad-blocking already installed. I think people may consider that enough of a feature to pay for.

Wouldn’t trust it at this point … but what I would trust is a blank router that has a GitHub repo with a containerized build that I could run on my own machine and something ai ish that lets me flash it :)

Would be legit to be able to have an Llm do a source audit before installing …. Not perfect but damn sure better than nothing

Well, I just bought a:

https://www.gl-inet.com/en-de/products/gl-be14000

so.. yes? I haven't gotten around to flashing stock openwrt on it - but I probably will at some point - seems to be supported now?

https://forum.gl-inet.com/t/flint-4-openwrt-vanilla/71383/10

I think it would be difficult to compete with existing offerings - even though they are quite few.

There are some Chinese companies making more open router dev boards like Banana Pi R4. You can install openwrt out of the box. But generally, the SoCs that power the current generation of routers are locked down / highly proprietary (and always have been). It's the chips, not the boards, which matter most.

> So, do you actually want a router that you can buy with DD-WRT pre-installed?

No, I'd rather flash it myself and use OpenWrt instead of DD-WRT.

I just bought a used Extreme Networks AP that shipped with OpenWRT installed. I appreciated the convenience of something that was partly done before I got it.

It's currently serving as a wireless bridge client for a network of 10 IP cameras.

You need to remind yourself that the overwhelming majority of populace are not HN users. Most just want a cheap "internet box" that gives them WiFi. If any had interest in going deeper into networking, they would build a router themselves. But if you had some extra unique features on top of DD-WRT, that might turn a few heads. I do recall Tomaz Zaman on Youtube building their own router completely from scratch - not saying it's 100% what you plan on doing, just a reference point for you to look at.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I think that routers are a pretty geeky thing that most people don't want to hear about. I had offered to buy and set up a pfsense router for my parents for a few years ago and they were decidedly not interested, even after I tried explaining the merits of it. Pretty much anyone who is going to be interested in DD-WRT is going to be someone who can set it up themselves.

pfsense can sell for a relatively high price, I think, because they market themselves more towards businesses and big corporations.

Many stock Firmware is just OpenWRT with fancy interface. I remember Asus being one.

maybe preinstalled but easily able to overwrite with a downloaded version from dd-wrt as no one should trust preinstalled firmware on these devices.

DD-WRT isn't open-source though. OpenWRT is.

Interesting related question -- I recently inherited several WiFI AP/Routers that are openwrt or DDWRT compatible. Are there any packages that folks are working on, or know of that can centrally manage a fleet of them?

If there wasn't, I was going to use this as a project to explore vibecoding...

Wow, the timing of this question is eerie. Just last week, I got tired of talking about segmenting my network but never doing it. So I did some research, asked some friends, and settled on the following:

* An Opnsense firewall (purchased from Deciso; ie: "official" hardware)

* An OpenWRT One (ie: "official" hardware) to be used as an access point

* A Microtik switch (SW OS, not Router OS)

My plan is to create multiple SSIDs, have each one on a different vlan, and then control services provided to that vlan. For example, I'll dump all IOT crap onto a vlan that doesn't have internet access.

I'm still not 100% sure it will work (the hardware still hasn't arrived). But finally, to answer your question: "Yes!"

Holy crap, give me official hardware. I installed DD-WRT on my linsys router. It's been so long that I don't remember exact details, but the process was INTIMIDATING. I felt like I had to download a blob from a website that wasn't the official website (ie: I seem to recall different people building DD-WRT for different hardware). I also recall some features not being available on some hardware.

Give me the hardware that is sold by the people that work on the project!

I want some reassurance that I have the "most supported hardware", so I don't have to go through huge feature matrices to see if my hardware supports feature X.

I want headroom to install new packages. I don't want to have so little space that I need to remove one package to install another.

And finally, I want the people writing the software to GET PAID, because I want it to still be around... and being actively developed 10 years from now.

PS:

I initially wanted to get a consumer grade switch, but my network operator friends told me that was a terrible idea... and that I should get a use Cisco switch on Ebay. Cisco is probably great and network operators love it... but holy crap... trying to figure out what switch to buy is an enormous pain in the a$$. I pushed my friends, they relented and said: "Mikrotik is also great". I went to their website. 1000 times better than Cisco's; their switches were cheaper. I didn't have to "call for a quote" or scour Ebay. I haven't turned it on yet, but the buying experience was so much better.

Ddwrt is a joke today. I would pay to have it go away forever or finally become mature and not be forever in beta.

Glinet routers are already this.

Buy https://www.gl-inet.com/en-us/products/gl-mt3600be and move on with your life.

Alternately, what's the problem you're trying to solve? Who are your potential customers? Why do existing options in the market not address their needs?

I got this idea too. To sell the openwrt preinstalled routers.

Yes, or open Wrt

IMHO, those who want a router with open-source firmware are going to have the technical knowledge to do the finding and flashing themselves, by virtue of being embedded in tech deeply enough to recognize the value of an open-source firmware in the first place.

Those who look at you blankly when you mention open-source router firmware aren’t likely going to become customers.

I used to use pfsense and openwrt and stuff but now with Claude I just use a custom Linux distribution running on a dell 2u. That being said I have 25 gbps of internet across 5 internet providers (puerto Rico) and that plugs into my internal home network running at 2x 25 gbps . So for savings it’s like two quad 10 gbps cards. I’ve found substantial speed advantages via consumer hardware considering the cross sectional bandwidth is like 70 gbps

Thinkpenguin used to sell Rosewill routers that came with a particular Linux installed, but their value add was no proprietary blobs, everything open source and FSF certified IIRC.

How does DD-WRT compare to RouterOS?

I used to use DD-WRT, and Tomato, and Shibby's mod of Tomato, and Advanced Tomato, and other stuff. Somewhere, I'm sure I still have a WRT54GS that I hacked ~20 years ago to accept SD cards. It was a fun time in using inexpensive hardware in unintended ways.

At one point, and I don't remember exactly when, I just started using OpenWRT instead. It wasn't always the case, but it presents a very usable GUI straight away these days and it has a ton of flexibility for getting creative later.

At home I run it on a Pi4 that I bought for the purpose. It keeps up with my 500/20Mbps DOCSIS internet very well indeed. I've used it with a USB NIC to get dedicated ports, and also with VLANs and a managed switch instead. I just download and flash the card, plug stuff in, and configure it. No real issues -- for years, now. (Wireless is provided by Mikrotik access points.)

When something faster happens in my neighborhood (which may be very soon; I had a very brief chat with a dude whose fiber splicing trailer was parked across the street just yesterday), I'll probably want to move to something more capable.

That could be in the form of faster Pi, or an old PC running OPNsense -- or even stick with OpenWRT. No big deal.

If I really wanted a tidier package for light-weight travel or something, then I guess I'd pick something appropriate from glinet and put an official OpenWRT image on it.

For heavier-travel, I've got a kit with a Pi4, a managed PoE switch, and a backup Mikrotik box (that can be a switch or a router; it runs OpenWRT as well and the normal config is that it just provides more switch ports), and all this stuff is mounted onto a 1U rack shelf that is in-turn inside of a road case. It's meant to be physically durable and to include enough gear that if any part of it dies then I can replace that functionality Right Now without spending time finding parts in the middle of nowhere.

So, no: I would not buy one that was prefabulated. It wouldn't scratch my itch.

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For everyone else? Honestly, the regular folks I know who ask me questions about networking aren't into that stuff at all or they wouldn't be asking. They don't care about ultimate speeds, or latency under load, or any of those things. They don't care about running Internet services from their network, or services on their local network, and probably don't even have a printer to abuse if something goes awry. They're also not interested in exploring the bowels of their home to install cabling for PoE access points.

They just want decent-enough wifi coverage that they don't have to think about it, and then: They want to succeed at not thinking about it.

So for those folks, I've come to recommend proprietary multi-node mesh systems. It doesn't really matter to me which one it is, or how terrible some aspect or other is: They all tend to check the right boxes, they update themselves, and then: Nobody thinks about them.