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▲ ramesh31 4 hours ago

[flagged]

▲marssaxman 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is a common experience with any unfamiliar genre: it all looks or sounds the same at first, because the point of a genre is to express variation within a specific, familiar structure. As a newcomer, the structure dominates your perception, until you've exposed yourself to enough instances that you can filter out the common features and notice the details, which are where the actual creativity lies.

▲ramesh31 2 hours ago | parent [-]

>"This is a common experience with any unfamiliar genre: it all looks or sounds the same at first, because the point of a genre is to express variation within a specific, familiar structure."

If it were a question of genre, sure I get that. But we're talking about effectively all commercial art at this point. It has nothing to do with "western superior" racism or anything like that. Japan does not have this problem at all, even though they invented the anime aesthetic.

Where is the Chinese Mario, Elden Ring, or Metal Gear? What studio is producing a truly original distinct visual language?

▲whatshisface 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The Chinese equivalent of a dive with a good band is not ultra-commercialized international content available through western syndicates. If you want to get an idea of how hard they'd be to discover, try listing the American cultural rebels you know of (that are actually rebelling from something, not commercializing a 40 year old punk style).

▲MisterTea 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Why does everyone equate music with ultra commercialized crap? Why ignore the underground and alternative scenes? There is a fuck ton of alternative underground music and art. It's not hard to find.

▲Maxatar 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

That's kind of the point though. There are a ton of alternative underground music and art, but it's not popular and it's even less popular outside of the various countries from which it originates.

The same is true of Chinese culture. China has an unbelievably diverse range of music, film, theater, etc... but what gets exported to a Western audience is not going to be things like Beijing's underground punk and experimental noise scenes, Chinese shoegaze, Sichuan and Yunnan folk music, Mongolian throat-singing fused with metal, dozens of completely different regional opera traditions, underground queer cinema, or Sichuanese rap.

Westerners will mostly get the small slice of Chinese culture that is easiest to export, translate, market, and fit into familiar expectations about what "Chinese culture" is supposed to look like.

▲Al-Khwarizmi 38 minutes ago | parent [-]

And what reaches the West is surprisingly little.

Take the Condor Trilogy, for example. It's not even underground or punk, it's a major cultural touchstone. Written more than 50 years ago, over 300 million copies sold, dozens of TV and cinema adaptations. And as far as I know, only the first part has officially been translated into English, and nothing into Spanish. Even the TV adaptations, some of which had several hundred million viewers in China, haven't been published in the West: I have watched some with fan subtitles, but they haven't been brought officially as far as I know.

If even such major works don't reach us, judging Chinese culture by what does reach us is nonsense.

▲whatshisface 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Because we have a push-based knowledge culture that encompasses only what someone is willing to pay an advertisement channel to tell you.

▲jampekka 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I have no idea about Chinese pop culture, but it could be that for someone not familiar with it everything may be too unfamiliar for the differences to become appreciable.

For example I don't listen much electronic dance music (house, techno, trance etc), and whenever I end up in a club it sounds to me that its always the same loud thumping song playing. Those who go frequently do seem to find a lot of variation though.

▲RobotToaster 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Is that really any different to Hollywood and western pop songs?

▲nonethewiser 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This reminds me of South Korea. IDK if its still a thing but apparently there was an official puffer jacket tier list and 90% of high school students wore 1 of about 8 different jackets.

Social games that drive conformity.

▲devindotcom 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think you may want to interrogate why you feel this way a little more before you assign it to a "feature of Chinese culture." Frankly your comment comes across as aggressively ignorant.

▲comboy 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

To me China seems much more diverse than the US.

▲EA-3167 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

While true, that probably says more about what you’re looking for at home. I could be wrong, maybe you’re really into the late pop fads, mass market tv events and all of that. To an extent this comes down to comparing an entertainment landscape you know how to navigate to find the stuff aimed at you, with a foreign one.

Western reality tv, procedurals, game shows, soap operas and so on are incredibly samey after all. BUT the other factor is that creative endeavors in China take place under a censorship regime. Some topics are safer than others, so the mainstream tends to be quite formulaic and focused on fantasy, sci-fi, or pseudo historical shows.

▲cyberax 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Might I direct you to the popular American culture? The US comics for a long time were _required_ to be pre-AI slop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_Code_Authority#1954_Cod...

▲applfanboysbgon 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

▲dang 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Can you please not break the site guidelines like this, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are? I realize it's frustrating—most of all when someone is lazily expressing a one-sided majority view (<-- not talking about the GP here, just in general), but it's necessary to wait until that surge of frustration subsides before posting, if we're to have the kind of discussion we're trying for (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).

If you know more than someone else does, that's great—but in that case please share some of what you know, so we can all learn, and please do it without resorting to putdowns or swipes.

I know that takes more time and energy, but in this way you make an enduring positive contribution instead of an ephemeral destructive one. Curious conversation is fragile; it can't withstand many kicks and blows.

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

▲applfanboysbgon 3 hours ago | parent [-]

What exactly is a productive response to blatant racism other than calling it out? What constructive discussion does a variant of "all Asian people look the same" engender?

▲dang 3 hours ago | parent [-]

A productive response would be one that doesn't, if repeated, lead to the destruction of the commons (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...).

The issue is the kind of community we're trying to have here. In deciding what counts as a good contribution, that has to be the high order bit.

At a minimum, one thing that requires is not punishing people for being wrong. We're all wrong, after all.

▲applfanboysbgon 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I would argue that shunning racism is productive for the commons. Instead it is the person calling it out who is being shunned. Wonderful.

The claim being made is so obviously, categorically incorrect that it falls apart within a single second of examination. For example: Hoyoverse, a Chinese company, produced Genshin Impact and Nodusfall, two games with completely different art styles. And yet, in typing this, I have already spent an order of magnitude more effort[1] than somebody professing their racist worldview is dignified to receive. I think the actual productive response is shutting that down. I mean, really. A billion people who can only produce one artstyle like a factory? The claim is so patently, obviously, intentionally racist and incapable of holding up to reality it's absurd.

I could spend an hour scrolling back through my Twitter likes and collecting links to a huge array of Chinese artists with divergent artstyles, but in doing so I would be doing nothing more than wasting my own time, because someone with such a flagrant disregard of reality to come to that conclusion in the first place isn't going to change their view based on being shown reality.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law

Whatever. I unfortunately have a compulsion to check this site, but I'll do my best to refrain from posting in the future, since your vision of the site is one where posting racist comments is welcome and calling them out is unwelcome.

▲F3nd0 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Hoyoverse, a Chinese company, produced Genshin Impact and Nodusfall, two games with completely different art styles.

And with that single sentence, you have provided a great counter-example. Had you included it in your first comment, you would have saved yourself yet another order of magnitude’s worth of words to type out and contributed to the culture here far more, no?

For what it’s worth, the original comment did not read as blatantly racist to me, though I see how one could read it that way.

▲ 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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