| ▲ | gthrow12345 5 hours ago |
| I agree in general, but how do you resolve the problem that people will take the output of the chatbot as authoritative even when it could possibly have errors or miss important nuance? People being lead astray with information from the government could lead to very serious consequences, up to and including imprisonment. Honest question, I had the same issue when my work wanted me to stick a chatbot in front of our HR portal and I never resolved it to my satisfaction. |
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| ▲ | sippingabonedry a few seconds ago | parent | next [-] |
| > I had the same issue when my work wanted me to stick a chatbot in front of our HR portal and I never resolved it to my satisfaction. Can't say I've ever worked at a company whose knowledge base wasn't a complete shitshow full of broken links and outdated information. I expect the government will do a slightly better job. |
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| ▲ | rayiner an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > but how do you resolve the problem that people will take the output of the chatbot as authoritative even when it could possibly have errors or miss important nuance You have to measure that problem against the status quo, which is that current government websites are very hard to understand and leave people with very little idea of what’s going on. |
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| ▲ | LelouBil 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | [delayed] | |
| ▲ | dukeyukey 8 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's just not true, a flow on gov.uk can involve a lot of pages but they are exceedingly clear and easy to navigate. | |
| ▲ | latexr an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Speak for yourself (your country). In the EU I have interacted with several government websites which are better, faster, clearer than most other websites. Not always perfect (what is) but not frustrating either. People love to complain, but year over year I have seen steady improvements in usability. Phone support has always been better than any commercial entity, too (or it was, I haven’t needed it in years). To enhance the status quo you don’t need LLMs, you need people who care. | | |
| ▲ | godelski 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > To enhance the status quo you don’t need LLMs, you need people who care.
Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy seems to always come into play. The second group tends to win over time as their objective is easier to satisfy | |
| ▲ | stldev 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | 100% this. When you need to work with the government, the last thing you want is a program limited by a specific set of rules and interfaces. You want a person who understands your (sometimes unique) issue, who knows how things actually work, and can work around the restrictions imposed upon programs. Someone who can pick up a phone, help you out of bureaucratic corners. | |
| ▲ | ToucanLoucan 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As an American, I've never had issues navigating government websites. That said, I'm also not part of the apparently huge portion of our population who can't read above 6th grade, which I suspect is more of the issue than anything said here thus far. | |
| ▲ | rayiner an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | U.S. government websites are usually pretty good post-Obama. But any structured website is too complicated for a lot of the population to navigate. They don’t even know what agency does the thing they need. | |
| ▲ | hatthew 33 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | GP is very clearly speaking for america? | |
| ▲ | deadbabe an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | People who care already have their words in the LLMs training data. |
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| ▲ | braiamp an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > which is that current government websites are very hard to understand and leave people with very little idea of what’s going on If only there was an office that cross-agency allowed for a consistent and reasonable design of all public pages and that they are accessible... like the uk https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/17s14k4/how_did_we_e... | | |
| ▲ | kevin_thibedeau 40 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The US had something approaching that. It was considered waste, fraud, and abuse so had to go in the purge. |
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| ▲ | makeitdouble an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I don't know for the gov. For HR, the best approach I've seen is to have source and links extremely prominent and have the bot speak like a mascot ("bip bip boop I'm the HR bot" style) People don't read disclaimers nor warnings about the content, but usually won't come to the HR to complain a mascot fed them weird info they didn't bother to check. |
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| ▲ | maherbeg 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Painfully this will fall to the court decide and create the precedence here. If this is an official government app, then the onus probably is on the government to provide correct information? Who knows, it could go either way and the courts could say "you're on the hook". I don't think we have a good answer for liability here, like for Tesla FSD, Waymo, or even the current frontier models. |
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| ▲ | xp84 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > people will take the output of the chatbot as authoritative even when it could possibly have errors or miss important nuance? Meh, the kind of person who would accept bot output without even reading its sources are already trusting the world's dumbest model, Google's "AI Overview" by searching and reading that instead of clicking any results. If we can get even some of them to start out at america.gov instead of google.com for those questions, it's likely going to be far higher quality due to using a better model and having been trained, I assume, to only answer using knowledge from a .gov primary source rather than guessing based on vibes, or on jokes once seen on Reddit, as AI Overview tends to. |
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| ▲ | hiddencost 17 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I dunno, I believe that everyone is worthy of thriving and that requires education. We'd be better off with naive people than monsters like you in my opinion. | | |
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| ▲ | fragmede 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| What happens now if someone uses traditional search and comes across an outdated wiki or Confluence page with outdated/wrong/bad instructions, or interprets something incorrectly? |
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| ▲ | BalinKing 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | At least as I see it, it would be just as unacceptable for a "normal" government website to be dangerously outdated. | | |
| ▲ | rayiner an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Perhaps. But that’s never been the law in the U.S. https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/450/785/#tab-opi... | | |
| ▲ | BalinKing an hour ago | parent [-] | | I don't think the parent comments were arguing that America.gov is illegal for having a chatbot, just that it's a bad idea. | | |
| ▲ | rayiner 44 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I’m responding to your point that it would be “unacceptable” for a regular government website to provide wrong information. The case I linked to says that the government isn’t responsible for mistakes in what the government tells you about the law. If someone in the social security office says the law is X, but it’s actually Y, then the citizen is still required to follow Y. | | |
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| ▲ | mpyne 24 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Well, you're going to be in for a shock about how many government websites are in an unacceptable state. |
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| ▲ | Spooky23 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | You can reference the source. My team experimented with this a couple of years ago with a complex government regulatory body of knowledge. Google and Microsoft have APIs that will ground with and reference the specific policy documents, which helps. Even then, it was more useful as a job aid for people already knowledgeable of the data than for a layman. With all LLMs, the quality of the question correlates with the quality of the answer. |
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