| ▲ | Manuel_D an hour ago |
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| ▲ | burkaman an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| There is nothing in the article about exceeding allotted time, and from the video it seems like she had just started speaking. |
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| ▲ | dekhn an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | The article does have some context: """The move passed 5 - 3, the crowd shouted at city leaders, and Schrag ordered citizens to clear the room and shut off cameras recording the event. As people left, police detained and ticketed Noah Powell. Later in the evening Mia Heider tried to speak out about Flock during public comments about a housing issue. Police arrested her while Schrag looked on. “Sorry ma’m,” the mayor said as police led Heider away in handcuffs.""" Without defending anybody, it is generally disruptive to talk about a topic that is not on the current agenda but opinions differ on whether that can lead to an arrest. If you've ever run one of these council meetings, you'll quickly see there are folks who just want to disrupt the process or make it go very slowly (these things often wrap up after midnight). | | |
| ▲ | text0404 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | According to TFA, the "folks who just want to disrupt the process" seem to be the city council and the mayor, not their constituents who came to give public comments about something that affects them: > The council was set to vote on Jensons’ proposed review on Monday and hear comments from the community. But when the resolution came up during the meeting, Mayor Schrag immediately pushed to send it to a committee and avoid public comment. In a democracy, it's generally disruptive to prevent constituents from petitioning for redress of grievances. | | |
| ▲ | dekhn 42 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Is saying the following (different person said this, but was also arrested) a petition for redress of grievances? """“Well, I said: ‘Jeff Schrag is a cuck.’ I said: ‘Fuck you Jeff.’ I said: ‘Worthless’ and then, also, the final thing I said was: ‘Jeff Schrag has a tiny, stinky, cock,’” Powell explained. “I just let myself get handcuffed and let them do whatever power trip they wanted to do. Got my ticket and left.”""" I like democracy and I want people to have their voice heard but city council meetings are about getting business done, and they don't guarantee that every single person will be able to speak at length about their grievances. | | |
| ▲ | text0404 35 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > Is saying the following (different person said this, but was also arrested) a petition for redress of grievances? Yes, and it's protected by the first amendment. > they don't guarantee that every single person will be able to speak at length about their grievances. In this case, they didn't let anyone speak at any length about their grievances. Hence this article. | | |
| ▲ | dekhn 21 minutes ago | parent [-] | | No, insulting a person is not a petition for redress of grievances. To do so, you must actually state a grievance. In this case Powell just wanted to insult the city council. | | |
| ▲ | text0404 9 minutes ago | parent [-] | | That's Powell. Heider was also arrested and prevented from petitioning for redress of grievances, going back to my point: > In a democracy, it's generally disruptive to prevent constituents from petitioning for redress of grievances. The real "disruption" here is the fact that the council and the mayor refuse to listen to their constituents, not that some of those constituents are angry about it. |
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| ▲ | burkaman 29 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | I agree it is disruptive, obviously that was the point, but it is not "depriving the rest of the people of their abilities to comment". Had she been allowed to finish her comment, nobody would have been deprived of anything. |
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| ▲ | Manuel_D an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That statement was directed about the trend of posting videos of people getting dragged away from council meetings, in general, not this particular story. In this particular story, Heider was using the comment period on an unrelated issue to voice her complaints about Flock. Hence her removal once it became clear she was not talking about the issue at hand. > Heider explained that she waited until the public comment period for a different issue, filled out a form to talk, and then got up to deliver a written statement about Flock cameras. At a high level it's the same thing: people trying to use public comment periods for protests, rather than actually engage with the topic. Consider this: what if at every public comments periods, anti-abortion activists incessantly took the stand at unrelated meetings to rant about abortion providers? This becomes so pervasive that good faith community members who actually want to engage with the topic at hand have reduced opportunity to speak. Of course removal of the former is justified if they refuse to abide by the rules of the council meetings. | | |
| ▲ | G0lg0thvn an hour ago | parent [-] | | Really uneducated argument considering you’re just ignoring half of the context. | | |
| ▲ | Manuel_D an hour ago | parent [-] | | What context am I ignoring? | | |
| ▲ | text0404 41 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > Dozens of people showed up to the Springfield City Council Meeting on September 22 with plans to let city leaders know how they felt about the city’s use of automated license plate readers. There was a resolution before the council that would trigger a review of the controversial camera systems, but Schrag moved to send the resolution to committee and prevent public comment on the issue. | | |
| ▲ | Manuel_D 40 minutes ago | parent [-] | | That doesn't make make it permissible to try and use the comments periods on other meetings to talk about Flock. The point remains, she was not removed for simply voicing opposition to Flock cameras. The was arrested and removed for trying to derail an unrelated meeting. Someone going on the stand to rant about abortion during a meeting on sidewalk codes would similarly get removed. | | |
| ▲ | text0404 15 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The person saying your comment is ignorant probably doesn't care about the procedural rules. Instead, it's because you're placing disproportionate emphasis on citizens following meeting rules instead of being concerned that they're denied the ability to speak about policies that directly affect them in a democracy. |
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| ▲ | paulddraper an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | The time was for speaking about building development codes. Contrary to what some seem to believe, public discussions are not open-mic night. | | |
| ▲ | 40 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | JKCalhoun an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | public discussions I guess I don't follow. | | |
| ▲ | dekhn 16 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Yes, you don't. We don't live in a world where words literally mean what they say without nuance or context. We live in a world where "public discussion" does not mean "all the people who want to talk about a topic of interest can disrupt a city business meeting". We also live in a world where the city council can table (US meaning) a discussion by sending it to committee. Have you been to city council meetings, especially in places like Berkeley? They often go well past midnight and are filled with people just endlessly postponing important votes. These are business meetings that follow an agenda and the leaders have a significant amount of power to move the process along. |
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| ▲ | tranceylc an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I doubt the intentions of your argument when most of your time here is spent advocating for a surveillance state in the US. Is there a monetary incentive, or do you defend these companies because you dislike humanity? |
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| ▲ | adrianN an hour ago | parent [-] | | Your comment would be much better without the last sentence. | | |
| ▲ | bigyabai an hour ago | parent [-] | | Nah. Flock is a YC business, and they've been extremely insecure about the press they get (versus, say Palantir). It's about time that we start naming-and-shaming people that promote surveillance using strawmen and scapegoats. | | |
| ▲ | bigstrat2003 34 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Yes, in fact it would be better without the last sentence. If one wishes to have a productive discussion, assuming bad faith on the part of your interlocutor is not the way to go about it. That just leads to flame wars. |
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| ▲ | ethagnawl an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > When someone exceed their allotted time during a public comments period, that person is depriving the rest of the people of their abilities to comment. Except ... nowhere in the article does it say that Heider exceeded her allotted time. |
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| ▲ | jacobgkau an hour ago | parent [-] | | She exceeded the allotted time to speak about the topic of Flock cameras, by starting to talk about them at all during the portion of the meeting about a housing issue. These meetings are about specific topics, not an "every citizen gets X minutes at the podium" free-for-all. | | |
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| ▲ | ChiperSoft an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| She said three sentences. What was her allotted time, five seconds? |
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| ▲ | sippingabonedry an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Your comment was shadow banned, and it's unclear why. |
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| ▲ | FireBeyond an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Sure. And what crime was committed in doing so? |
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| ▲ | LazyMans an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | 0c3ca83 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Your only other submitted story this year has been promoting Flock's "new safety standards. Most of your recent posts are trying to promote flock. I wonder if you actually attend any local neighborhood meetings. | |
| ▲ | pesus 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Your insistence on forcing Flock surveillance down people's throats without consent is why your meetings had "dreadful attendance". It's pretty telling that your main concern was the attendance, too. | |
| ▲ | p_j_w an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Did you read the article? |
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| ▲ | LPisGood an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
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