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Woman Arrested, Dragged Away After Speaking About Flock at City Council Meeting(404media.co)
118 points by latexr an hour ago | 65 comments
p_j_w 35 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

>The cop said, “You’re under arrest,” grabbed her arms, and pulled her out of the room. “I can do this all night. I get paid by the hour,” the cop added.

Two sentences showing precisely why no one can trust the police. Not only are they completely unaccountable, but they will trample your first amendment rights and do so with smug amusement in full public view. These are the kinds of people we're supposed to be happy to give massive surveillance power to?

sippingabonedry 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah because addressing the city council with your middle fingers extended is totally mature and appropriate of adults.

For a place full of hall monitors obsessed with decorum and commenting rules, it sure seems flexible at times.

Would be nice if 404 showed the entire unedited video, as opposed to non-linear clips full of jump cuts, but that might bust their narrative.

solenoid0937 2 minutes ago | parent [-]

Why does a city council installing Flock cameras deserve respect?

Why do they get to use the police state to abuse people if they get disrespected?

Absolutely insane that the surveillance state is expanding (even more!) and this is what you're concerned about.

throwup238 13 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

One rotten apple spoils the entire barrel.

ostensible 17 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Maybe provide more context?

> Heider held up both of her middle fingers

> The cop said, “You’re under arrest,” grabbed her arms, and pulled her out of the room.

Looks differently now, does not it?!

dmos62 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The implication is that holding up middle-fingers is illegal?

ostensible 8 minutes ago | parent [-]

The middle finger itself is protected speech. It does not create immunity for disruptive conduct at a public meeting, and omitting the conduct immediately before the arrest is misleading.

She got what she deserved. You can criticize. You cannot disrupt a public meeting and abuse people from the floor.

ElevenLathe 16 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What could you possibly mean by this?

cucumber3732842 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Flipping various members of your government the bird has probably been ruled free speech up and down every federal district in the country at this point.

someonebaggy 16 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not really? I don't see any part of the first amendment that says anything about middle fingers.

embedding-shape 15 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

This has to be sarcasm, right? The added context is that she held up her middle fingers, as that somehow justifies anything but a shrug?

paulddraper 8 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

An attendee interrupted the discussion on the law being passed, flipped off the council, and refused to leave.

How is that First Amendment rights?

pixl97 6 minutes ago | parent [-]

Looking at the the wrong way, what the citizenship in mass should be doing is surrounding the meeting with torches and making said council fear for their lives.

paulddraper 3 minutes ago | parent [-]

Imminent threats of violence are not covered by the First Amendment.

Peaceful gathering are covered.

rdiddly 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't even get what the comment has to do with anything. Is it supposed to be some kind of zinger? It's a great idea. Make him spend all night arresting people.

paulddraper 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Have you not heard similar from parents/teachers/chaperons?

"I will take as long as I need, to get you to comply. Your resistance doesn't make this go away, it just prolongs the inevitable."

dekhn 6 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

The article is written to enrage you. Including that "zinger" makes you angry at the establishment. After reading the article, while I sympathize with the woman who was arrested, I am not surprised at the outcome.

Manuel_D 32 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

When someone exceed their allotted time during a public comments period, that person is depriving the rest of the people of their abilities to comment. People get dragged away from public comments sessions all the time, and stories always try to spin this as some sort of oppressive behavior.

burkaman 28 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

There is nothing in the article about exceeding allotted time, and from the video it seems like she had just started speaking.

Manuel_D a minute ago | parent | next [-]

That statement was directed about the broader trend of posting videos of people getting dragged away from council meetings, not this particular story.

In this particular story, Heider was using the comment period on an unrelated issue to voice her complaints about Flock. Hence her removal once it became clear she was not talking about the issue at hand.

> Heider explained that she waited until the public comment period for a different issue, filled out a form to talk, and then got up to deliver a written statement about Flock cameras.

dekhn 8 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

The article does have some context:

"""The move passed 5 - 3, the crowd shouted at city leaders, and Schrag ordered citizens to clear the room and shut off cameras recording the event. As people left, police detained and ticketed Noah Powell. Later in the evening Mia Heider tried to speak out about Flock during public comments about a housing issue. Police arrested her while Schrag looked on. “Sorry ma’m,” the mayor said as police led Heider away in handcuffs."""

Without defending anybody, it is generally disruptive to talk about a topic that is not on the current agenda but opinions differ on whether that can lead to an arrest. If you've ever run one of these council meetings, you'll quickly see there are folks who just want to disrupt the process or make it go very slowly (these things often wrap up after midnight).

text0404 a minute ago | parent [-]

According to TFA, the "folks who just want to disrupt the process" seem to be the city council and the mayor, not their constituents who came to give public comments about something that affects them:

> The council was set to vote on Jensons’ proposed review on Monday and hear comments from the community. But when the resolution came up during the meeting, Mayor Schrag immediately pushed to send it to a committee and avoid public comment.

tranceylc 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I doubt the intentions of your argument when most of your time here is spent advocating for a surveillance state in the US. Is there a monetary incentive, or do you defend these companies because you dislike humanity?

adrianN 24 minutes ago | parent [-]

Your comment would be much better without the last sentence.

bigyabai 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

Nah. Flock is a YC business, and they've been extremely insecure about the press they get (versus, say Palantir).

It's about time that we start naming-and-shaming people that promote surveillance using strawmen and scapegoats.

ethagnawl 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> When someone exceed their allotted time during a public comments period, that person is depriving the rest of the people of their abilities to comment.

Except ... nowhere in the article does it say that Heider exceeded her allotted time.

ChiperSoft 26 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

She said three sentences. What was her allotted time, five seconds?

LPisGood 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I’m against flock cameras in principle and practice. However, with respect to this particular issue, spending more than your time talking in attempt to drive the meeting off course is a clear act of civil disobedience. The consequences of this is (almost by definition) going to be police violence.

p_j_w 17 minutes ago | parent [-]

Did you read the article?

LazyMans 29 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Exactly. We have an individual that started doing this constantly in our local neighborhood meetings. It makes the entire meeting so dreadful attendance began to drop off. Fortunately we finally acted and threatened to bar and trespass them if they didn't stop. Complete lack of respect for the process and others.

0c3ca83 16 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Your only other submitted story this year has been promoting Flock's "new safety standards. Most of your recent posts are trying to promote flock. I wonder if you actually attend any local neighborhood meetings.

p_j_w 17 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Did you read the article?

FireBeyond 25 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Sure. And what crime was committed in doing so?

_trampeltier 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As an european guy. Interesting to see things happen from far away. Knowing that crazy country has so much power, makes the near future of the whole world even more scary.

someonebaggy 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

It's not that much different in the most powerful parts of Europe. For instance Germany does this to people who talk about Palestine. So does the UK. Poland does it to people who talk about gay rights. I don't know the equivalent in Spain, France or Italy.

CalRobert 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Indeed. Though omnipresent surveillance and restricted speech is an issue in some of Europe too.

izacus 16 minutes ago | parent [-]

On the other hand, I see a lot of HackerNewsers and European geeks utterly angry at laws that forbid (blanket) recording of public places and GDPR which controls what the videos can be used for.

Every EU topic here is filled with people wishing for its destruction and dismantling of such privacy protecting laws.

dsign 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sadly, it happens here as well: https://cybernews.com/news/denmark-arrest-lars-andersen-doxx... ...

xnickb 19 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Thankfully we have no voting power in the said country so they don't care what we think as long as we consume and overall behave. Let's see how long this lasts though. It seems as though EU is approaching the finding out stage.

talon8635 13 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

EU is covered in cameras, possibly more than USA

input_sh a minute ago | parent [-]

One major difference between being covered with CCTV cameras and what Flock is doing is the CC part of that acronym.

gruez 3 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This article is terrible. The story is already pretty good (for the anti-flock side), with the the mayor/council was for shutting down debate on flock. The author didn't need to devolve into ragebait territory, obfuscating what happened by jumping forwards and backwards in time between paragraphs.

Here's a non-ragebait, chronological version:

>Dozens of people showed up to the Springfield City Council Meeting on September 22 with plans to let city leaders know how they felt about the city’s use of automated license plate readers. There was a resolution before the council that would trigger a review of the controversial camera systems, but Schrag moved to send the resolution to committee and prevent public comment on the issue.

>Heider explained that she waited until the public comment period for a different issue, filled out a form to talk, and then got up to deliver a written statement about Flock cameras.

>she was arrested and dragged away in handcuffs.

>The cop said, “You’re under arrest,” grabbed her arms, and pulled her out of the room. “I can do this all night. I get paid by the hour,” the cop added.

>The police officer who arrested her said Heider was being charged with disrupting the peace. He took her into the hallway outside of the meeting and held her in handcuffs for around five minutes before issuing her a ticket and letting her go.

armadyl 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Improved title:

Woman Arrested, Dragged Away After Speaking About Flock (YC 17) at City Council Meeting

Aurornis 4 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They really buried the details in this article. The opener leads you to believe she did nothing wrong because she briefly spoke during a public comment period

> Mia Heider had never attended a public meeting before when she showed up to the city council meeting in Springfield, Missouri. After briefly speaking at a podium during a public comment period, she was arrested and dragged away in handcuffs.

The details are toward the end. The council was trying to discuss a public housing issue and she was trying to use that time slot to bring up Flock.

> Later in the evening Mia Heider tried to speak out about Flock during public comments about a housing issue.

They cut off the mic and told her it was the wrong topic, she wouldn’t leave the podium, flipped off the council (it’s the photo in the article) and the police hauled her off the podium.

There’s a real valid story in here about the city council sending the Flock thing to committee, but the article has been through the clickbait ringer so many times that they’re trying to make it sound like someone got arrested for saying “Flock cameras” during an open comments section, which isn’t true.

Given the topic I’m probably going to get downvoted for bringing up facts from the article itself, but I’m really tired of this type of journalism where you can tell they workshopped this and carefully chose which important details to bury at the bottom of the story so it gives a different impression if you only read the headline or skim the first couple paragraphs.

slibhb 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Based on reading between the lines and watching the video, here's my sense of what happened:

1. Some protestors showed up at a council meeting to complain about flock

2. The council moved to disallow discussion of flock cameras

3. The protestors started disrupting the meeting, chanting, etc, and were forced to leave/were arrested

4. One protestor went to the podium and started talking about flock cameras, was politely interrupted, then had her mic cut. She flipped off the council and was arrested

If you oppose flock/this kind of surveillance, fine. But this kind of behavior is not tolerated at council meetings, and it's not a surprise that some of the protestors were arrested.

> “Well, I said: ‘Jeff Schrag is a cuck.’ I said: ‘Fuck you Jeff.’ I said: ‘Worthless’ and then, also, the final thing I said was: ‘Jeff Schrag has a tiny, stinky, cock,’” Powell explained. “I just let myself get handcuffed and let them do whatever power trip they wanted to do. Got my ticket and left.”

I mean, really?

G0lg0thvn 8 minutes ago | parent [-]

A lot pearl clutching going on here

delichon 19 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> “Well, I said: ‘Jeff Schrag is a cuck.’ I said: ‘Fuck you Jeff.’ I said: ‘Worthless’ and then, also, the final thing I said was: ‘Jeff Schrag has a tiny, stinky, cock,’” Powell explained.

I agree with the point she was trying to make. As a member of the public she should not have been arrested for being verbally abusive. But I'm OK with her being removed for subjecting the people who work there to that abuse. If she had made the same points with something approaching civility I'd be in her corner, as I still am with respect to surveillance.

If she were a coworker directing that to me, one of us would be a former employee by the end of the day.

sodiumjoe 14 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

That wasn't the woman (Heider).

> “Hello, my name is Miley Heider. I’m a Springfield, Missouri constituent, and I’m here to oppose the usage of ALPR cameras, most commonly made by Flock Safety. These cameras are not just surveillance,” Heider started.

> “I’m sorry ma’am,” Springfield Mayor Jeff Schrag said. Her mic was cut. A cop approached her at the podium.

> Heider held up both of her middle fingers while continuing to speak: “They are an invasion of our privacy,” she said.

Powell was the other person arrested.

> Heider was one of two people arrested

talon8635 11 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

A reasonable take. It’s a hot button issue, and arrest is absurd, but these people are embarrassing and actually the most counterproductive way to approach this.

You want to know how to turn the masses of normies that could otherwise be persuaded to join you? Send in people like this to behave like this.

SmasherEpilepti 3 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Those were two different people.

rurban 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

At least she wasn't tortured and burnt. Yet

bell-cot 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Looks like the Mayor won't face reelection 'till 2029 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_Springfield,_Missouri_may...

toomuchtodo an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Springfield, Missouri about to be sued.

bpodgursky 18 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Later in the evening Mia Heider tried to speak out about Flock during public comments about a housing issue. Police arrested her while Schrag looked on. “Sorry ma’m,” the mayor said as police led Heider away in handcuffs.

I mean, what is the appropriate response to someone refusing follow protocol after giving guidance that there's a different topic at hand now? There was a comment session on Flock cameras, people talked about it, then they moved onto housing. You can't run a public meeting where people get to drag every issue back to their favorite issue uninhibited, it just literally doesn't work. The meeting would run 24/7/365 and still nothing would get done.

golf1052 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

How it works in Seattle is that people are supposed to sign up and talk about things on the agenda for that council meeting but they are not stopped from talking about anything. This is why you'll see people like Alex Tsimerman (look him up) speak nonsense at nearly every council meeting. The councilpeople just ignore those comments and I believe they aren't included in the meeting record since they're off topic.

There's other ways to also try and limit the length of public comment, if there's more than say 30 people signed up, reduce public comment from 2 minutes per person to 1 minute. Be aggressive about cutting mics rather than giving everyone 10 extra seconds.

Finally, if enough people are frustrated enough about an issue to constantly show up to public comment to talk about it, councilmembers should try meeting with those people at a different forum to at least hear them out to try and diffuse their anger. Council meetings should not be the only other place where residents can talk to their councilmembers.

someonebaggy 12 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sure makes it awfully convenient to end a comment session when you don't want to hear what's being said. We are approving the budget for the death ray, do we have any objections? You have five hundred microseconds to object. Let the record show there were no objections. Guards, arrest that man for speaking after the time for objections has ended.

Manuel_D 6 minutes ago | parent [-]

The comment session was for an entirely unrelated issue.

> Heider explained that she waited until the public comment period for a different issue, filled out a form to talk, and then got up to deliver a written statement about Flock cameras.

It wasn't that the council disagreed with what Heider said, it's that what she was talking about was unrelated to the meeting.

iAMkenough 2 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

As a community leader, it would be to publicly acknowledge that there are concerns, then schedule a town hall meeting for their constituents to discuss those concerns with subject matter experts at a more appropriate time.

That's apparently asking too much.

api 24 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

At this point I no longer think the US can say anything about the Chinese. Yes they have a surveillance dystopia and highly entrenched state crony capitalism, but we now have exactly the same thing.

jackb4040 a minute ago | parent | next [-]

> highly entrenched state crony capitalism

If your goal is to rescue the reputation of capitalism, people have found more success just calling Donald Trump a communist.

I-M-S 18 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You don't have remotely the same thing. You don't have high-speed trains, housing that populace who don't already own real estate can afford, a government that keeps the tech-oligarchs at a short leash and who mercilessly removes corrupt officials, functional public transit, functional anything public really.

talon8635 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

It’s a good think they are open to immigration! The promised land awaits you!

api 15 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Ahh, but we haven't finished making America Great Again! Give the great helmsman Trump more time!

Oh... wait... the great part never happens. We'll just copy all the bad things about China. Got it.

someonebaggy 14 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

The US was one of the earliest countries to have these things. China, Russia and even Nazi Germany were inspired by the US.

jackb4040 3 minutes ago | parent [-]

I think it's a bit reductive to compare China taking inspiration from America in the 20th century to Nazi Germany's explicit admiration for slavery and the genocide of Native Americans.