| ▲ | littlecranky67 4 hours ago |
| Will this bring oil prices down in Europe? Oil tankers could still go to the mediteranian via the suez canal. This will not help asia, but I can imagine if it is too dangerous the go through bab al-mandab strait it is more lucrative to sell the crude oil to europe at a discount? |
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| ▲ | markvdb 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| No. A cynic might think a significant part of this half-arsed Iran war was: - make sure fuel prices increase globally - The US economy is relatively well-shielded from the fallout by its own fossil fuel sources, local and in colonies like Venezuela. - export more US fossil fuels, especially to Europe, at inflated prices. US insiders reap the profits. - further kneecap European competitiveness in energy intensive sectors, steal market share. Oh well, small gift to China here too, but still a net win for the US. |
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| ▲ | noelsusman 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's nice to think there was some sort of plan, but the truth is much scarier. | | |
| ▲ | danisth 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I believe there were pieces of a plan. This global energy shift gambit being one of them. I don’t think there was a unified strategy with contingencies etc though (if there was it certainly wasn’t very good). | | |
| ▲ | jimbokun 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Why do you believe "there were pieces of a plan"? Any reporting to corroborate that theory? | |
| ▲ | pixl97 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | "concept of a plan" | |
| ▲ | WarmWash 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | People are so politically blinded that it's almost impossible to explain the plan, but to anyone with the strength to keep a level head, it's pretty clear what the plan was, and frankly it probably had a 50% success chance. But Trump rolled a critical failure on it. Iranians were rioting against the regime, Israel intelligence handed the US a report that the collective "Head" of the Iranian regime will be all together at one place, at one time. Cut off the head, and the rioters riding high on the win will topple the rest. Coming off of the swift clean victory in Venezuela, and Trumps incredible desire to put feathers in his cap, it was an irresistible proposition. So he decided to cut off the head, which was successful. The miscalculation however was that the rioters got scared/apathetic rather than motivated. The power vacuum was filled by the same people who were there before. I'm sure Mossad and the CIA were probably on the ground trying to ground swell support, but evidently it didn't happen. | | |
| ▲ | xboxnolifes 43 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Has the cut off the head strategy ever worked in any US operation for replacing a leader with someone outside of their existing network? | |
| ▲ | mrguyorama 31 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | The only people who ever would have taken any of this as a "Plan" are the moronic current admin. Killing a few heads of Iran was known to not be an effective strategy, because the power is in the hands of the IRGC as an institution and large group, not the figureheads. This is especially hilarious when the Trump admin was so freaking stupid, they couldn't figure this out even after it didn't work the first time. They continued trying to kill random figureheads as if that plan would have had more success if you killed people nobody had previously heard of. None of this is "miscalculation" or bad luck or taking a reasonable gamble. It's stupidity. There was not evidence to believe this plan had a strong chance. There was no organized resistance. Claims of supporting the Kurds, a group the Trump admin has fucked over more than once (nit: Other Kurds, they aren't a single group), happened only after the war was already going tits up and involved absurd tweets about "dropping them weapons" as if that's just a thing you can do on a whim and as if the Kurds themselves were willing, ready and able to resist the Iran regime. We did not "Cut off the head" in Venezuela. We conspired with insiders to replace one figurehead with another. It was not a victory except for extremely weird people who think abducting a foreign head of state is somehow a good thing. The Pentagon was actively telling the admin all of this, which is why some of them were fired. What happened was even dumber than this absurd post-hoc rationalization: Israel was fucking pissed after Oct 7th, which is reasonable, and decided that "Mowing the grass" was done, and they were going to Finally fix this. They planned to attack Iran. Their strikes over the next year were done to enable this. Shortly before their planned attacks were to start, Bibi came to Trump and told him about this Righteous war they were about to do and got it in Trump's mind that it would be good for the US to look Strong if they attacked first, as Iran would probably attack US bases in retaliation anyway, and may end up pulled in regardless. IE, there's a chance Kamala would also have gotten sucked into this quagmire in some fashion, depending on how Iran had reacted to just Israel's strikes. Nobody was in a strong position to tell Israel "No, don't start this war, that's stupid, it's stupid, you've already neutered all the proxy groups, just take your victory and go home" This is Israel's war. They don't mind the straight being screwed up. They don't mind the world economy falling down. |
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| ▲ | postsantum 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >some sort of plan George Friedman, The Next Decade | | |
| ▲ | Rygian 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Friedman [...] advocates a deal with Iran which would essentially allow it a secure sphere of influence in the region and an alliance with Turkey to counterbalance Iran and Israel. Seems to be in contradiction. | | |
| ▲ | nemomarx 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think the idea is 3 regimes in power to keep a balance between them instead of two rivals? |
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| ▲ | markvdb an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I observe mostly short term opportunism. Powerful people deliberately injecting chaos for financial profit. Negative externalities: - loss of trust - loss of evidence based policy - loss of long-term planning - loss of talent - financial loss for almost all except the rare insiders | |
| ▲ | the_gipsy 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Short-term benefits seem to be good enough for America in this new age. |
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| ▲ | hebelehubele 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The US sells oil and refined products to other countries. So a supply crunch would raise prices even there too. Everyday Americans are not getting fuel for cheap. | | |
| ▲ | toyg 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Nobody cares about everyday Americans, it's about American corporations. Exxon and friends are printing money. | | |
| ▲ | fnordpiglet 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I have a suspicion that the caring is starting to mount, otherwise there’s no need to offer a $1.3T election bribe (which I’ll file a the other dividend / bribes that were never sent and the bridge Trump sold me) |
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| ▲ | DrScientist an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Using that lens then you could view the Iran war is simply a failed ( so far ) attempt to grab Iranian oil revenues, perhaps emboldened by the relatively quick success of the Venezuela adventure. The truth is probably much more multi-headed - though hard to see how the US would have gone to war without some assessment of their own energy situation. | |
| ▲ | Art9681 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Realpolitik might just be the best way to do things after all. | | |
| ▲ | giardini 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Please don't leave us in suspense: what would "realpolitik" be in this instance? | | |
| ▲ | markus_zhang 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The greatest happiness is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see those dear to them bathed in tears, to clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters. |
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| ▲ | Al-Khwarizmi 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Sure, if you make oil prices increase, US oil companies and their shareholders rake in more cash. But it's harmful for the average American because filling up the tank costs a lot more. Then that price hike spreads to everything else that relies on oil (which is pretty much everything) leading to inflation and rising interest rates (already starting to happen, the shielding you mention doesn't seem to be working, which makes sense in a relatively free-market economy). If the situation drags on, unemployment rises due to soaring costs across the board, and the economy goes to hell. A rise in crude prices might pay off for a small country that lives almost exclusively off it (say, Saudi Arabia, in the hyphotetical case that it could keep exporting as normal) but for the US? I don't think it does. Surely, Europe is more exposed than the US and will suffer even more, but this is not a zero-sum game. So I don't think it's an elaborate plan, it's just Trump being reckless as usual. | | |
| ▲ | Catloafdev 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I wouldn't assume this administration gives a shit about inflation or rising interest rates or how the rest of the economy is doing. Do you have any reason to believe they do? | |
| ▲ | AnthonyMouse 35 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | > But it's harmful for the average American because filling up the tank costs a lot more. The fun part about this is that it shows what people actually care about. What happens if petroleum prices go up? People use less. It's the entire premise of a carbon tax. Fuel costs more so people buy a hybrid or electric vehicle, power utilities find renewables or nuclear more attractive relative to natural gas, etc. In a market economy this is the primary way to get people to switch from something to alternatives -- which is pretty important if you think climate change is a problem. This is obviously not why Trump is doing it, but it's the consequence of it anyway. So now we get to see what people care about. Do you like higher oil prices because it speeds up the transition away from fossil fuels, or dislike them because of who it is that caused it this time? |
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| ▲ | watwut 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I just dont think these guy are even capable to plan that much. | | |
| ▲ | galangalalgol 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If you think so little of them, then imagine what the people who pay $5M for a meal with him can convince him to do. Or what people who pay his son-in-law/iran-negotiator 25M a year can call and ask him to do. | |
| ▲ | p-e-w 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Then you probably believe that the US government only consists of the half dozen clowns you see on TV every day. | | |
| ▲ | fofoz 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | We have no doubt that the best people are in US government and that they have the best tools at their disposal. Around the world, we are simply trying to figure out, while munching on plenty of popcorn, how this incredible sequence of actions will play out; a sequence clearly crafted using highly complex strategic planning tools that employ the most advanced techniques from game theory, AI, and who knows what else. | |
| ▲ | 5upplied_demand 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I personally believe the well-sourced journalism explaining how the President ignored the opinions of Government experts to do what he wanted. > https://www.wsj.com/politics/national-security/iran-war-warn... | |
| ▲ | discreteevent 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's the point this time around. They went full authoritarian and purged all the competent people. | | |
| ▲ | Art9681 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | That's just the media noise. Yea there were purges. But its a big leap to go from "some" to "all" the best people. Government is the largest employer in the country. The nonsense you see constantly by politicians and other leaders is a tiny fraction of what the government workforce is. This is why despite the chaos you see in the media, life hasn't changed much for the great majority of people all things considered. The government remains functional where it needs to be. | | |
| ▲ | voganmother42 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Its been way more effective at murdering US citizens for sure. The ICE recruits are raising the bar. Oh and now the FBI can consider those with a background in bestiality, so lots of fresh talent there | |
| ▲ | m_fayer 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The purges haven’t reached too deep into the rank and file yet, which is why the walls are still standing. But they’ve hit the top of the pyramid hard, which is why nothing makes sense. |
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| ▲ | megous 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yes, if the rest just listens and executes their wishes, then you're all clowns. | |
| ▲ | estearum 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Someone hasn't been paying attention to the Pentagon or State Department purges, both of which would lead precisely to this type of mistake. We had a retard in the Oval Office 2017-2021 surrounded by "the deep state" (i.e. career managers of the ultra-complex organization called "the government"), and politically constrained by Congress. Now we have that same retard, but supported by vast purges of aforementioned managers, and politically unconstrained by the cultists and cowards (the two forms of GOP representative) in Congress. | |
| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | epolanski 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You're missing a key part: energy prices in US go up too. It doesn't matter if US and its colonies are net producers. | | | |
| ▲ | jimbokun 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | You honestly think the Trump administration is intelligent enough to think all of that through and execute it? | |
| ▲ | wins32767 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Its almost like not having meaningful power projection capabilities when you rely on imports for essential industries is not good! | |
| ▲ | llm_nerd 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The US is the world's most vulnerable economy to oil shocks. I mean the real economy, not the farce that the markets currently are. The Venezuela comment is extremely weird. You know Venezuela has negligible production, right, and that it would take 100s of billions of investments, over decades, to get reasonable production that would make a difference. That's ignoring that currently there is a laughably illegitimate puppet government -- literally just Madero's government minus him, as they did the coup with the US -- that has a 100% chance of a violent overthrow in the future. Which is exactly why all of the oil companies are shrugging and saying no thanks. Venezuela is a farce -- much like $5000 "dividend" for a government literally on the precipice of bankruptcy, as Bessent runs around, near tears, trying to convince everyone that they're the house and he's the big dog German Shepherd instead of the face of a failing empire having its last pathetic gasp, to laughter all around -- that Trump thinks gives him leverage against Canada. It is unbelievably pathetic business, like renaming a 400+ year old name on a lake like a little bitch. There is zero scenario where this has benefitted the US, but a drunkard incompetent secdef (sorry "secwar") convinced a foolish demented rapist, who already had Israel whispering in his ear, how easy and painless this foolish debacle will be. ROFL. | |
| ▲ | EGreg 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This was clearly a secret attempt of Trump's to be the world's best president for getting off fossil fuels and moving to renewables. The man is playing 7 dimensional chess bro! When all is said and done it will be he, not AOC or Bernie or any "Green New Deal" folks, that will be remembered by history as the president who did more to get people off fossil fuels than any other. | | |
| ▲ | fofoz 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | He's so clever that he's probably even playing chess in a Hilbert space. The whole world envies American voters, who will receive $5,000 if they re-elect this incredible genius. | | |
| ▲ | EGreg 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think the "stable" in stable genius actually refers to the points of stability under transformations. Brower's fixed point theorem. Do your own research! | | |
| ▲ | 27183 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I heard if you inject yourself with bleach you can perceive the higher dimensions. Many people say this. |
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| ▲ | bijowo1676 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Trump is just accelerating the course of history. The fall of American hegemony, the humiliation of the MIC, the petrodollar, the fossil fuels, the USD as reserve currency is like speedrunning the historical events to reach the next more balanced equilibrium state https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism | | |
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| ▲ | jonplackett 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is part of the Houthis preventing Saudi Arabia from exporting any oil at all. So no I don’t think it’s gonna make oil lower. Higher probably. But oil is doing very weird things. |
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| ▲ | skeeter2020 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I've never seen oil prices decrease due to any regional disruption; the market is global. If the price in Alberta went up when the Straight closed, I wouldn't hold my breathe for Europe in this scenario. |
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| ▲ | serf 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | >I've never seen oil prices decrease due to any regional disruption; the market is global. oil spiked and then crashed during the gulf war & the iraq war in 03. the gulf war probably because of western price control methods kicking in, the iraq war because of an increase in confidence that the region would produce oil after western 'securing' of oil fields allowing further volume investment from the UAE and friends. I guess it really just depends on what the definition of 'regional disruption' is. |
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| ▲ | MBCook 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Why wouldn’t they go up? Instability is instability. Oil is fungible. There’s no reason to think someone else won’t escalate this further disrupting supplies even more. That will push prices up. Even if they don’t, if oil can’t get through this straight it will have to go somewhere else, which will increase shipping traffic and demand for “your oil” right? And wouldn’t that also push up prices? |
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| ▲ | jcranmer 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| VLCCs are too large to fit through the Suez Canal. I don't know how much of Saudi export is using VLCCs versus Suezmax or smaller tankers, but I've heard that much of the Red Sea oil export is currently going through Bab al-Mandab, not that I have a source on hand. |
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| ▲ | seatac76 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I wouldn’t count on safe Med passage, I think last month a drone attacked a ship in Egypt. And the channel to Suez isn’t exactly wide or out of range for Houthis. GCC will have to talk to Iran now, there is no reasonable way out of this quagmire other than a regional accommodation with Iran. Talk about a regression but here we are. |
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| ▲ | talon8635 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Aren’t these groups working with, no against, China? And against, not with, Western Europe? So being prices down where, in eastern Europe? |
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| ▲ | danans 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > if it is too dangerous the go through bab al-mandab strait it is more lucrative to sell the crude oil to europe at a discount? I suspect they would sooner curtail production rather then sell at a discount due to route restrictions. |
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| ▲ | Paradigma11 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Not really. It is very hard and expensive to get these oil well pumping again. That is why we had negative oil prices during covid. Plus, when we are talking about the Gulf states, they have extremely low production cost. The discount would be against world prices, not production cost. |
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| ▲ | briffle 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| most large tankers are too large for both the Suez and Panama Canals. |
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| ▲ | haunter 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/james-franco-first-time |
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| ▲ | epolanski 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Oil is sold globally. It doesn't matter if in Texas wells are producing it at a penny for barrel, if the global prices are high that oil is going to be sold to Philippinos, Japanese, Italians or South Africans. So, at the same time, it doesn't matter if some new routes open or close, it doesn't particularly favor one or the other buyer, it's still sold globally on a bid. |
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| ▲ | toss1 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Not today. The Iranian-backed Houthis also struck the Saudi East-West oil pipeline [0], pumping stations and refining capability. Reductions in export output initially estimated around 700,000 barrels per day now missing from the market. [0] https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Saudi-Oil... |
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| ▲ | alephnerd 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Will this bring oil prices down in Europe ... This will not help Asia This hurts Europe more than Asia. The UK, France, Italy, Netherlands, Denmark, and others are similarly opposed to the Houthis having conducted airstrikes on the Houthis (eg. 2025) as well as helping target them directly or indirectly. And a large portion of global shipping is owned by Greek conglomerates - a country that is a close ally of Israel. Most GCC states also have some form of defense agreement with the UK or France. If those turn out to be meaningless, it reduces their incentive to cut preferential deals with European states. Additionally, this further enhances Turkiye and Pakistan's hand, as Saudi Arabia has signed defense pacts with both and Pakistan has threatened action against Iran yesterday if further incidents threaten Saudi Arabia. If they were able to dislodge the Houthis without direct European intervention, then it is a massive black stain on the EU's power projection capacity and it's claim that it should be treated as a great power. It also gives Turkiye additional leverage against the EU. Finally, the Houthis struck the East-West Pipeline [0]. Much of the KSA's oil is in Eastern Saudi Arabia around Dhahran. Most large Asian states like China, India, Japan, and South Korea have continued operations in Iran that allowed them continued passage. European states lack access to GCC oil as a result of Perim island being controlled by the Houthis. [0] - https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/yemens-houthis-rea... |
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| ▲ | eagleal 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah the EU leadership has been really shortsighted on these past decades (especially since the 10s), especially in their strategic energy and industrial sectors. Be it the Ukranian conflict, the ME crisis, the NA wars and instabilities, etc. The EU is the one that geopolitically speaking lost the most. Unless they're full puppets for foreign interests, I simply do not understand how they could leave foreign actors to dictate policies that affect thier own territory and enterprises without any sort of critical thought. But even then, they could not have possibly been all mere puppets. And yet. | | |
| ▲ | fabian2k 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It was cheaper, I don't think it's much more complex than that. And with fossil fuels, countries without significant local production are always dependent on someone else, with most potential suppliers being problematic in some way. Of course we should have gone for renewable energy more forcefully, but that wouldn't have resolved the issue. That change will take time, and you can't arbitrarily accelerate it. | | |
| ▲ | throwaway473825 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | No, gas has always been the most expensive source of electricity. Take a look at the German merit order from 2018: https://www.ffe.de/en/publications/merit-order-shifts-and-th... Nuclear is cheapest, then lignite, then hard coal, and then gas. Germany phased out the cheapest option first, now continues with the second, and is expanding the most expensive. The obvious choice would have been to do what China and India are doing - phase out gas power first and focus on electrification. But Europe did the opposite. | |
| ▲ | mytailorisrich 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Well the US benefit massively because of their investments in shale gas. Meanwhile the Europe suffers massively and they banned shale gas although they could exploit vast resources. Sure, the environment, etc but Europe hasn't invested strategically in that, either. China has. |
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| ▲ | markus_zhang 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I guess you only need maybe 20% of them to be puppets to mess around. It’s a lot easier to damage than to build. | |
| ▲ | Tuna-Fish 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Aren't those really easy to explain? EU opposes the Houthis because they are a horrifying slave state that distributes children as sex slaves to their troops. EU opposes Russia because it is a horrifying fascist dictatorship that has repeatedly invaded it's neighbors, and constantly talks about it's historical claims to EU territory. In the NA conflicts it's harder to draw such a clear line, because the conflicts typically have about 15 sides each, but the basic algorithm you can use is generally that EU tries very hard to pick sides based on morality, not geopolitical interests. | | |
| ▲ | eagleal 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Those can be said for other economic partners that are being used so no. That's not it, that's just rhetoric for the masses. _You'll here the same thing tomorrow, after I say the complete opposite today._ |
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| ▲ | rdm_blackhole 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Unless they're full puppets for foreign interests, The European parliament has been bought 10 times over by the lobbies. See https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/08/lobbyists-euro... "By some estimates, they influence 75% of legislation" > But even then, they could not have possibly been all mere puppets. And yet. Even if the lobbying was not reason for all the bad decisions of the EU, the EU parliament has no way to actually propose any laws on its own. All the laws emanate from the commission which is also bought and paid for by you guessed it, the lobbies. | |
| ▲ | alephnerd 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The issue was 1990s-2000s Germany argued it was in Europe's best interest to integrate Russia into the European fabric, but 1990s-2000s France+UK+Italy argued it was in Europe's best interest to integrate the Mediterranean into the European fabric. When the UK left the EU and France+Italy were in the midst of their economic doldrums due to the Eurozone crisis, this left the hard power states within the EU comparatively weakened. But the collapse of Minsk II and the ongoing war in the Middle East led to a cascading crisis for a unified Europe. | | |
| ▲ | eagleal 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Minsk per the people that brokered it was just a temporary patch to prepare Ukraine for the invasion. So no. That's not it. It's business and by now it should be clear to anyone that there's no morality involved in this space. There's nothing wrong with Russia as energy partner, as long as you don't shoot yourself in the foot by blowing up the alternatives. South of EU had proper energy supplies from ME/NA. For example crisis in ME was mitigated by Russian energy or NA energy (Algeria, Tunisia, Lebanon, etc). The new hegemons like Turkey, Israel, etc came only later, yet we can't say they're Saints can we? Also to appease the US administration line a lot of green energy projects were put on hold, and were only restarted this year after the Hormuz situation. The only real explanation is shortsightness for personal interests (but even then you'd have to have all your capitals abroad), or being a tool for foreign interests. |
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| ▲ | gib444 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Unless they're full puppets for foreign interests It's an open secret that Russian money is deep, deep in European politics. |
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| ▲ | throwaway198846 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Japan, and South Korea have continued operations in Iran that allowed them continued passage. 1.How do they pay Iran considering the sanctions?
2.Do you think EU shouldn't sanction Iran even though they violated NNPT and their terrible record on human rights because Iran can threaten them with a sufficient price? > a country that is a close ally of Israel Are they? They never sent a single weapon or soldier to help israel, they have no formal or informal mutual defense agreement. Israel buy no military equipment from Greece. You mistake mutual interest because of a common enemy - Turkey to close alliance. | | |
| ▲ | alephnerd 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | 1. Waivers, state owned enterprises, shell corporations, barter trades, and using their own currencies for transactions 2. I agree. I'm just being prosaic as to why European states are in the pickle they are today. 3. They are closely entwined via logistics, but Cyprus would be an even closer Israel-Cyprus ties. The reality is, the Saudi-Turkiye-Kuwait-Pakistan alliance is a direct reaction to the Israel-Greece-Cyprus-UAE-India cooperation or the now signed Israel-Greece-Cyprus trilateral. | | |
| ▲ | throwaway198846 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I see, thank you for the prompt response, I think calling them close allies is overstating it. |
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| ▲ | inglor_cz 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | A Pakistan-Iran war was not on my bingo card. |
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| ▲ | voxleone 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
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