Debit cards still go through the same credit card infrastructure. The practical difference at this point is whether the card company backend defer payment until collection date for the benefit of customers, or don't wait and just call APIs on the spot. There's a whole "internet" of credit card infra that lets you pay using those numbers on the card like they are phone numbers.

Stripe don't do handle their own payment, they just wrap someone else's API, and pay them in percentages and dollars per API calls(idk about the ones behind Stripe, but I think I saw somewhere that those middlemen often charge both? Egregious, but they're literally old boys money men and they have lots of leverages against you).

What are truly different to credit/debit card systems are things like PayPal, Apple/Google and such gift cards with scratch areas, and Chinese QR payment apps. Those are the ones that don't (always) go through the CC ecosystem.

For US readers - in my country in europe I'd say that 95% of people have only debit card, not credit card. it's very not common to have a credit card here. Card payments are extremely common, but everyone uses debit card.

Debit cards aren't that, in practice, because as you say they typically get the same 3% fee whenever I've asked. Toast and other point of sale networks just charge it based on the network and not the card type.

But even so, I still prefer the credit card instrument, used as a "charge card". For those that don't know, a "charge card" is common with businesses and is expected to be paid off every month. But it helps with managing your cashflow - e.g. you can keep your money in a savings account all month and make one transaction at the end - and it keeps your actual money from being at risk of fraud.

Most Europeans seem confused with how Americans use credit cards for everything, but about half of us use them as charge cards, paying them off every month.

That is a benefit, so I can see paying a small percentage for it, but I don't think that benefit alone justifies the 3-5% of a transaction that credit cards charge now.

You have to wait for the investigation to complete to receive compensation if you’re hit by fraud on a debit card. Credit cards don’t share that issue. If you’re poor or living paycheck-to-paycheck, debit cards are potentially a risk to your livelihood.

Also debit cards run by smaller credit unions charge credit-card like fees (and then are used by fintechs to earn fees while making it harder to pass those fees on to end users).

No Chance in hell, the US government is even going after Brazil because they've done the right thing. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pix_(payment_system)#United_St...

Yes, let's bring the experience of waiting at the DMV or dealing with the IRS to payment systems. Great idea

Discover was JUST purchased by Capital One, so I think they'd hate for it to be nationalized

Each of those networks carry a lot, a lot of ancient stuff. Gov is better off building a brand new network from scratch and promote it as a standard for banks to join.

There are plenty of great examples from this century all over the world.

Even Iran has a better payment infra than the US.

>It boggles my mind that the government has privatized currency to these people.

That's the banks (lenders), not the payment networks.

>Crazy-person-but-actually-really practical-idea: Nationalize one if these networks. Maybe Discover.

The central planners want to. It's called FedNow.

> Another thing to consider is your credit card rewards cash back etc are really trading your privacy for a little rounding error worth of discount in comparison to using cash.

How much privacy really? If I get mostly $20s from the ATM, and the merchant does daily deposits of most of the $20s they get, why wouldn't banks start scanning and tracking serial numbers (if they don't already), if my purchasing habits are actually valuable?

Contractors, but also cosmetic health work. Invisalign, veneers, plastic surgery, etc. Probably most big-ticket items or services that you're not buying from a megacorp.

Sometimes they'll give even more than 5% because they can keep it off their books completely, but in those cases, they want physical cash--not just a check to avoid credit card fees.

> I used to think "I should be nice to merchants" and pay everything in cash.

That is only "nicer" as it allows to evade taxes. (Which some may consider nice)

But cost for cash is comparable to card payment if looked at seriously

* You need working time to count it

* You need working time to bring to bank (or request pickup, which costs)

* The bank will charge the deposit

* The bank will charge for the change you need

* In the shop the cash has to be protected (safe? Protection against robbery)

* This requires procedures for shift change etc (thus training time and prolonging working time)

* There is a risk of fraud (counterfeit, swap tricks etc.)

* Employees might have sticky fingers

> If merchants across the world make a deal with me to charge exactly the listed/advertised number exactly, no more, no less, then I'll pay in cash again.

Where are you not getting this? You mean taxes on top of the retail price? You would pay cash, if the merchants colluded with you in evading taxes?

> If merchants across the world make a deal with me to charge exactly the listed/advertised number exactly, no more, no less, then I'll pay in cash again.

This seems to still be pretty reliable for most things in brick-and-mortar stores, FWIW.

I would only use cash in situations where I'm able to obtain a discount compared to using a credit card.

Even then, you have to think twice. If you get scammed of cash, it's gone. If you get scammed in a credit card transaction, there is a fighting chance you can dispute the charge and have it reversed in their face.

You know that credit card feature of providing some insurance coverage on things like vehicle rentals? It may look like small print, but I actually used that. By some amazing fluke, I damaged the bumper of a rental car; the credit card coverage took care of it. I filled out minor paperwork and never heard about the issue.

Speaking of rentals, in many rental situations (even simple power tools at your Home Depot or whatever) you get charged a deposit on the card which comes back when you return the thing. It's just a number in database. With cash, you'd have to fork that up over the counter; very unappealing.

I don't play the points game, I use a cashback card.

I use a cashback card, because most merchants will charge me the same regardless of payment method, and getting a 4% discount (+ time value of money) is the lowest cost to me. If I use some other payment method, the merchant may keep more of the transaction amount, and that's great for them, but it doesn't improve my customer experience. If interchange fees are strictly capped and cashback cards disappear, I wouldn't be upset; but while they're here, I'm incentivized to use them... following economic incentives while doing economic transactions seems like the right thing to do?