| ▲ | ProfessorLayton 5 hours ago |
| The audio note taking feature is extremely off-putting to me and can't believe it was so prominently showcased. It's made even worse by the fact that only the newest watches support this, but their external designs are unchanged from past ones, so there's no way to tell who's always listening to everything (I have an Ultra 2, likely my last one). Is this something most people want?? At the very least I'd appreciate a notification like the unknown airtag thing to tell me I'm being eavesdropped. |
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| ▲ | tomwphillips 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| The video demo is so strange. A waitress spoke too fast - just act like a normal person and politely ask them to repeat themselves, instead of reading a transcription on your watch. My goodness. |
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| ▲ | shagie 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | https://youtu.be/Pe2ugye7Ya4?si=qhGPselIm7sZkXyP&t=558 ( My father has hearing aids and in some environments, it doesn't work well (directional vs omnidirectional ... but directional requires the person to directly address him while omnidirectional tends to pick up too much background clutter). In doctors offices (for example) he has handed his phone in dictation mode to the receptionist and asked them to speak to it and then he reads the transcription and responds... and this repeats. In a restaurant environment, sometimes another person orders for him. This sort of thing could be useful in such cases. | |
| ▲ | ricardobeat 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As someone whose hearing has been degrading fast, this sounds like a feature that would be immensely useful. At some point you get tired of asking everyone to repeat themselves and start guessing by context (you've probably seen an old family member do this). | |
| ▲ | toasty228 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | That's how you know no one in charge has a real life, they're all so disconnected from the reality of the bottom 90% that they think this is how we live. Same with the "airpod live translation" thing, they probably spent more time implementing/testing it than the feature has been used in real life | | |
| ▲ | xattt 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The demo of the woman at the train station listening to a concert promoter in Spanish, taking a flyer, saying “thank you” in English and walking away came off as quite geocentric. | | |
| ▲ | Jtsummers 35 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > came off as quite geocentric Did you mean to use another word here? I mean, the vast majority of people are still on Earth so many things are geocentric and that's rarely considered a problem. | |
| ▲ | Caracas288 29 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah, they're always leaving the Martians out! |
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| ▲ | dmd 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | And even if it weren't super weird and creepy, it's 15 seconds, right? So what, that waitress rolledup, read the menu for less than 10 seconds, and then zoomed away, giving you a couple of seconds to get to and run the replay? | | |
| ▲ | vostrocity 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I've definitely had situations where I zoned out for a few seconds during a meeting or seminar, and want to see what was just spoken. That seems like a much stronger use case where you wouldn't want to interrupt the whole room to ask what was just spoken. | | |
| ▲ | bentcorner 16 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | This happens to me too and I enable 'Live Captions' (not meeting transcriptions) so that I always have a scroll back in case I miss something. It's built into the meeting software I use and probably in most mainstream ones. I tried OS transcription but those don't split out who's talking (since it's a single audio stream) so much less useful. Anyways all that to say that at least in online meetings this problem is solved and addressing this problem in a stack that doesn't have meeting context is going to result in a worse experience. | |
| ▲ | gumby271 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's gonna make a loud ass chime when you do that, so I don't think that's the use case Apple was imagining. | |
| ▲ | roamerz an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | That doesn't seem to be a use case that I would use - now assuming someone is still speaking, you look at your watch (just bad form to me) you will very likely miss what is being talked about while reading what you previously missed. At least my one channel brain would. |
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| ▲ | sixothree 6 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I kept thinking they were revealing glasses the way they gave a feature list before describing the item in question. | |
| ▲ | cyanydeez 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | oh man, you have not been keeping up with the anti-social joneses. Interactiving with people is so pre-covid! | |
| ▲ | parl_match 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It feels like a made for TV ad for accessibility. | |
| ▲ | seaparter 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | What is a normal person? |
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| ▲ | LeoPanthera 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Apple Watches have had an audio recorder app for years and no-one cares. Sometimes people are just looking for a reason to be offended. You'd be shocked what the suite of sensors in the smartphone 99% of the population has in their pocket can do. |
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| ▲ | mort96 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | If I learned that someone I've been speaking to for a while was recording the conversation using the audio recorder app on their phone, I'd find that extremely creepy. | | | |
| ▲ | mikeocool 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | People have plenty of conversations where if one party intentionally chose to record it, it would be big violation of trust. This is basically just "always on" recording/transcribing that people have to intentionally remember to turn off, that's a pretty big difference. | | |
| ▲ | al_borland 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | My hope is it’s off by default and most people choose to keep it that way. This featuring is undoubtedly to compete with, and crush, all of those stand-alone AI wearables that do the same thing. All those products failed, because people either didn’t find it that useful, or the creep factor was too high. I could see some scenarios where it might be useful. Being at a conference, for example, and having a summary of everything I heard in the various presentations. But at the same time, it feels like the people being recorded should have knowledge of, and give consent to, the recording. | | |
| ▲ | gumby271 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | What sucks is that if you've ever pushed back on the people that use those stupid AI recorders they'll insist they're not actually recording you, its just a transcript and summary, and somehow that's fine. I'm not looking forward to more people explaining that to me, especially hardcore Apple fans. | | |
| ▲ | al_borland 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah, I had this happen last time I went to the doctor… one of the last places I’d want it. At least with the Apple one they talked about how it works and it’s not some random product off Amazon doing god knows what. My dad is probably the most likely person in my life to use something like this. I could see him sending me the summary of our dinner conversation or something, which would be very weird and off-putting. He has been very concerned about his memory as he ages, so I could see him using something like this to help with age related memory issues. | | |
| ▲ | Grombobulous 12 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The doctor is probably the best place for this technology so that you can actually talk to your doctor rather than your doctor half-paying attention while they try to input everything into their EMR system on the computer. |
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| ▲ | concinds 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | They're already doing that on reddit. Fanboyism is so dangerous. No one should be that emotionally invested in a corporation, it lets them get away with anything. |
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| ▲ | shagie 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It's a 15 second loop of audio history. If you didn't record the bit a minute ago, it's gone. A short buffer is common with wake word audio processing. | | |
| ▲ | mikeocool 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It also summarizes your full conversations. | | |
| ▲ | nomel 29 minutes ago | parent [-] | | No, that part requires intent, where you have to turn it on with the button. It was in the demo. Regardless, you'll be mortified if you search the app store for software or Amazon for hardware devices that do this! You can still pick up voice recorders at Staples, actually (I was surprised to see they still sell them, and they have weeks of recording time now, along with transcription software). |
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| ▲ | vineyardmike an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | You missed the additional feature launch where they listen to your entire life and give you transcriptions and summaries. “Siri Recap” https://support.apple.com/en-us/148354 |
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| ▲ | wang_li 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | And a crime in plenty of states. It shouldn't be, but it is. |
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| ▲ | discostrings 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| More detail/discussion on the passive audio recording and transcription/summarization features: Apple details how Apple Watch’s new Audio Intelligence features work in privacy paper
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49635185 Apple Doesn’t Want You to Worry About the New Apple Watch’s Listening Features
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49634947 |
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| ▲ | ricardobeat 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| There's some more details on privacy at the bottom of the page: > Audio Intelligence features are private by design > a dedicated hardware-isolated compartment that processes audio in complete isolation from the rest of the system, then immediately deletes it > Users are in control and [...] can decide exactly where and when Siri Recap takes notes, and can turn Siri Recap on or off at any time > Siri Recap produces a brief, high-level summary of conversations — not a transcript — and is designed to exclude sensitive information like financial information or government-assigned identifiers |
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| ▲ | consumer451 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| My first thought was 2-party state violations, 24/7? However, any legally-minded people want to explain how they threaded the needle on this? I have real respect for Apple's "Private Cloud Compute" architecture [0], I am not a hater, just trying to understand. Are these the dividends Apple is getting from doing this truly impressive work? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49427928 - https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/ |
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| ▲ | qgin 29 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It really depends on what you consider a recording. If audio is streamed though a transcription engine and never saved in a way that could be replayed, it's hard to argue that a recording has been made. The live audio was transcribed. |
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| ▲ | mikeocool 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yeah, even more weird was when they highlighted the privacy aspect of it. Sure, it maintains the wearer's privacy, just not that of anyone around them. |
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| ▲ | tshaddox 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | In what way does this violate the privacy of anyone around them? It doesn't even store audio recordings, which is something every smartphone has been able to do for 20 years. | | |
| ▲ | saagarjha 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | It keeps information on what they said? | | |
| ▲ | tshaddox 41 minutes ago | parent [-] | | 15 seconds at a time, when the owner activates the feature. The scale of its recall is not meaningfully different than someone scribbling down 15 seconds worth of what they hear someone say (or even just remembering it), and does not pose a greater privacy risk than a scratchpad or human memory. |
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| ▲ | _the_inflator 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Tell us everything, what happens on tour stays on tour - sure. Just approve that your data is - of course - anonymously used to train AI and regarding intelligence agencies or AI Acts: well, it is not us, it is them. Law is law, you know. We won't tell you anyway. There is no privacy left. And to be honest, people worshipping their phones all day but complaining about privacy is the biggest WTF I have. This doesn't match. Also I am a Mathematician and know statistics very well. The person, who is not on Facebook, but on WhatsApp, who works at X and lives in Y - we got you my friend. You moved away? No problem! Someone photographed you casually, you weren't even the main character, we ignored you, and send it in a group chat you know nothing about. Well, we know all the others and can relate to anyway. And then? Well AI can very well predict you aging - easy. We have you already. Sleep well and dream of being unknown. Because... How do you know what you don't know? I gave up on privacy because there is none anymore. Selling and publication of your data is a whole different story. And that's what Apple means by circumventing the rest. | |
| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | jiggawatts 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It maintains everyone’s privacy. Just because your voice was recorded doesn’t necessarily mean it can be played back and/or “stolen”. Your soul won’t be sucked out through Apple Watches. | | |
| ▲ | gumby271 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think if someone followed me and my friend around and kept a transcript and summary of every conversation between and around us in a little notebook, I would have a basis to say my privacy was being violated, right? | | |
| ▲ | jiggawatts an hour ago | parent [-] | | Apple Watch doesn't maintain a transcript of every conversation. The user has to take action, and then it only goes back 15 seconds. If someone is following you around within earshot and fiddling with... a notepad and pencil or a watch or a phone or a tape recorder, then yes, you have reason to be upset. I agree. The ability of the Apple Watch to do what has always been possible doesn't materially change your privacy. [1] Fundamentally, this is an accessibility feature, and Apple -- and other vendors -- have already shipped several similar ones. Were you equally upset by those too? AirProds already 'record' all audio around them! They can even be used as listening devices! https://support.apple.com/en-au/102479 This reminds me of parents getting hysterical when someone pulls out a DSLR at a kid's soccer game, while standing next to half a dozen parents who are all taking pictures with the phones and immediately uploading them to Meta. [1] There are valid arguments to be made that this will be normalised and cloned... badly by Chinese and South Korean vendors without the privacy safeguards, at which point it is "too late" to put the genie back in the bottle. | | |
| ▲ | gumby271 32 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Sorry, you're right about the transcript, it's the summary that's generated that's still off putting. And I don't think we can compare this to weirdos being able to record other people, this is about when my friends come over and I have to wonder if they think it's normal to have running since "it's technically not recording" or "the summary is anonymized. It's normalizing behavior that's just a little weird, like people who use those ai recorders. I fail to see how that's not a violation of my privacy in some way. Also you don't need to point out stupid gatchas about airpods, don't be an ass. |
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| ▲ | revolvingthrow 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| While I instinctively dislike any "secretly spying" devices, phones could do that for a while now. I wouldn’t have much use for my watch doing it, but my nephew swears by taking notes on an ipad with an app that has a sort of a playback: essentially a play bar that recreates the note as it is written, with audio included. Being able to playback the lecture afterwards that way is a huge benefit over pure notes and I wish I had something like that when I was in school. |
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| ▲ | gumby271 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There's a difference between "weird people could choose to do this creepy thing and violate my trust" and "not weird people could forget to turn off this slightly less creepy thing and still violate my trust" Both of these suck, but honestly I don't appreciate that Apple is making me feel uneasy talking around my friends with Apple Watches. Not because I don't trust my friends, but because now it takes extra work for them to not do something kinda creepy. | |
| ▲ | concinds 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Friction makes all the difference. Google used to sweat over 100ms in page loading. Running a voice memory all day long is one thing. Pressing a button that automatically summarizes every conversation you'll ever have is a step change. |
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| ▲ | generalizations 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's the first iteration of what will eventually be an on-device Siri/openclaw that not only has full access to your messages/docs/emails/life, but also has live audio access to what's going on around you. Remember, this is all running via local models on-device. This is how Siri/openclaw can hear you make plans for lunch, then add it to the calendar before you open your phone. |
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| ▲ | Razengan 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is a step down the road to having an AI "presence" or entity that's always digesting sensory data, just like a human. | | |
| ▲ | xattt an hour ago | parent [-] | | Marital strife is a few years out from getting a lot more evidence-based. |
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| ▲ | CrimsonRain an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You can simply not talk if you don't want people to listen? |
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| ▲ | encomiast 20 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I think most people want to talk and have only the person they are talking to listen. |
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| ▲ | NoLinkToMe 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yeah very creepy, I'm afraid it'll be normalised in a few years, together with the cameras in our glasses. I always knew this was coming eventually, with storage and compute getting so cheap, eventually every record can and then will be saved for security / convenience reasons. Every word uttered, every emotion shown on your face, every URL visited, every view you laid your eyes on. I will miss the days that things could happen and be forgotten. No doubt this stuff is all very useful, but I'd rather we skip this line of technology. |
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| ▲ | varispeed 28 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It will stop arguments between partners "you said this week ago, now you say this" okay honey, let's compare our transcripts. |
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| ▲ | clint 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You would be aghast to spend any time in tech these days. I would wager more than 20% of the people in this field right now are wearing devices which record everything they say in every conversation and ship it directly to a transcription LLM and into some other tools. Go to SV and I bet this number jumps to nearer to 30-40% |
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| ▲ | jjcob 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I wonder if this feature will make people wary of Apple watch wearers. |
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| ▲ | gumby271 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It will make me as wary as I am around people that wear those little AI notetaker/recorders, so, very. At least with those it's a single use device that you can spot, now any Apple Watch could be listening, fun! | |
| ▲ | arrowleaf 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don't know if this will be the common reaction, but after seeing this I've made a mental note to not discuss anything private with anyone wearing an Apple Watch. Makes me suspicious of iPhones, too, after years of defending them and saying that 'technology is always listening' is a silly conspiracy | | |
| ▲ | tpmoney 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | “Always listening” in the way people have been conspiratorially claiming your phone is listening to show you ads is silly. Always listening in that the owner could run an application that could be recording them and you on the other hand has been a possibility since pretty much day one. | | |
| ▲ | matthewfcarlson 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | That's a good point, anyone with a smart phone could trivial have a voice recorder going all day and run it through whisper |
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| ▲ | jiggawatts 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| “These features do not create or store audio recordings, and raw audio used for processing is completely inaccessible to the operating systems, apps, the user, or Apple. This is because the S11 chip on Apple Watch Series 12 includes Secure Exclave, a dedicated hardware-isolated compartment that processes audio in complete isolation from the rest of the system, then immediately deletes it.” People love to get worked up over technology that is actually private and secure. Meanwhile they’ll use Google and Facebook without a second thought. |
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| ▲ | ProfessorLayton 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | So I took issue with the automated note taking of conversations and didn't mention audio recordings. No mention of using Google or Facebook either. | | |
| ▲ | jiggawatts 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | How is this different from a privacy standpoint of someone simply memorising what you said in the last fifteen seconds and scribbling it down onto a piece of paper? You’re sounding… hysterical. Even if you regularly say things that must never be tied back to you, like.. you are in the mafia or you’re an actual spy or whatever, and every single person around you has this on their wrist listening to every word you say all of the time…
Nothing changes for you. The users of the watches still have to take action to use the audio, which they too would have heard anyway, and could have transcribed and texted to someone or written down. Oh… wait… are you MIB? Are you concerned that your memory eraser wand won’t wipe Apple Watch recordings of the last 15 seconds, allowing the public to finally know about aliens amongst us? I know that sounds silly, but unless you can erase the memories stored in human brains, then you must realise that everything you say in the presence of meat computers with audio listening devices attached (ears) can be recorded (memorised). | | |
| ▲ | gumby271 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > How is this different from a privacy standpoint of someone simply memorising what you said in the last fifteen seconds and scribbling it down onto a piece of paper? I would hope to not be friends with such a fucking weird person tbh. But I guess if it's automated into a sexy device it's fine. | |
| ▲ | ProfessorLayton 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >How is this different from a privacy standpoint of someone simply memorising what you said in the last fifteen seconds and scribbling it down onto a piece of paper? The difference is extremely obvious, to the point that you even typed out one of the differences! |
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| ▲ | Zagitta 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I mean it's nonsense, apple can update the "secure exclave" software at any time to exfiltrate the audio if they want or get ordered to. If you read that quote carefully you'll also notice it's only the audio that's ever mentioned as inaccessible to apple etc but never mentions anything about the actual transcript, wanna bet that goes into their little advertisement venture? |
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| ▲ | lotsofpulp 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It’s great for exposing people abusing their authority by making off the record demands that they know are not kosher. |
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| ▲ | mort96 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| It's so creepy. So their watch is now always recording audio, and the rumors say that their next generation of AirPods Pro will gain cameras. I don't want an always-listening watch. I don't want earbuds with cameras. I don't want people around me to have those things either. I hate it. |