| ▲ | xp84 2 hours ago |
| Even that doesn't pass basic scrutiny. The same ambiguity can and always will exist with tim-apple.com and tim.apple.com - there's nothing here that needs fixing. |
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| ▲ | layer8 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| True, they can’t outright prevent the ambiguity, but much fewer people will go to the trouble of establishing such subdomains when the option isn’t directly offered by the registrar. This is my theory because, a priori, 3LDs should be more profitable than 2LDs, because with 3LDs John Doe and Jane Doe don’t have to compete over doe.name, but instead can each separately purchase john.doe.name and jane.doe.name. Apparently, however, that’s not a benefit of 3LDs in practice, which leads me to conclude that john-doe.name and jane-doe.name just sell better. |
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| ▲ | QuantumNomad_ an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Prior to reading the OP blog post, I had never looked into the particular rules that .name has. To me, prior to knowing how it works, I would have assumed that either a) john.doe.name would be a subdomain that someone who was just starting out had gotten for free supported by ads. Similar to having johndoe.freewebs.com back in the day. Not something most people would use for anything professional. or, b) doe.name was registered by one of the people in a family of Doe’s where every Doe is pretty closely related. For example, John of john.doe.name and Jane of jane.doe.name are husband and wife, or third cousins, or what have you. Most of the content, I would assume, is mostly about things that relate to the family. Like maybe one guy is doing a family genealogy project tracing the roots of this little cluster of Doe’s back in time and has made a site covering the findings from his research. And another one probably has some photo albums with pictures of like previous Thanksgivings and other family get togethers. In other words, nothing I would care about unless I was in their family or a very close friend of the family. I would not have guessed that .name 3LDs worked the way that it did if I hadn’t read about it. And on the other hand, if I saw just www.doe.name or johndoe.name, I would not make such assumptions. It would be not much different than seeing www.doe.com or johndoe.com respectively. I would just assume that .com was already taken and therefore they used .name, or that they happened to like the .name TLD because it emphasises that their site has their name as domain name. | |
| ▲ | toast0 an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | > This is my theory because, a priori, 3LDs should be more profitable than 2LDs, 3LDs are less valuable. In a market of many different tlds, why register foo.bar.name when you could get foobar.name or foobar.something_else | | |
| ▲ | layer8 31 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Because your name is John Doe and not JohnDoe. | | |
| ▲ | toast0 15 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Your name is also not John.Doe. Mr. Fraser registered neil.fraser.name in 2002, when 2nd level registration under .name was unavailable; fraser.com had been registered in 1996 and neilfraser.com in 2000; he may have been able to get .org or .net, their registration dates are later, but they may have been registered and there was a gap --- my personal domain shows a creation date of 2003, but I registered it much earlier and abandoned it, but got it back after it was registered and then abandoned by someone else. .name added 2nd level registration in 2004 and it seems to be vastly preferred. .us added 2nd level registration in 2002 and it was vastly preferred to the locality based naming. People don't want to have to educate their contacts about "weird" domains, which includes having an "extra" dot in your hostname. |
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| ▲ | dpoloncsak 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I can say, as a SysAdmin, I have been taught and tell my users to check the domain to verify a website is real. It's a strange edgecase that the owner of John.Doe.com does not need to own Doe.com In every other case that I know about, to own the Joe subdomain of Doe.com, you would need to own Doe.com edit: I guess I've gotten so used to the government 3LDs I just don't even see them anymore, or just see something like .co.uk or .edu.us as a TLD by itself, but yeah those exist too. Still the exception to the rule |
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| ▲ | dbt00 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That is definitely not true. There are literally thousands if not tens of thousands of well known domains that do this. .co.uk is a very common example. | | |
| ▲ | ndiddy an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | .name is still a weird edge case because of the naming rules. Whether or not all subdomains under doe.name belong to the same person depends solely on whether the first person registered "doe.name" (in which case they do) or "john.doe.name" (in which case they don't, and "doe.name" is excluded from purchase as a standalone domain). | | | |
| ▲ | dpoloncsak an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The fact that multiple organizations need to keep a public list of known 3LDs proves it's the edge case, does it not? "Here's a list of things that look like subdomains for you to treat as 3LDs instead of subdomains" sounds exactly like the solution to an edge case to me. | |
| ▲ | desas 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think the problem is that .co.uk, .gov.uk and so on are very well known in the UK. The .name subdomain rules are not very well known anywhere. | |
| ▲ | davkan 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I can’t think of any prominent ones outside of country code domains. | | |
| ▲ | bombcar 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You can almost guess someone's age from that alone - they're more rare, but long domain names still appear that encode a city and a state, and you could just "grab" the first part when signing up. | | |
| ▲ | davkan an hour ago | parent [-] | | Outside of the context of ccTLDs and city.state.gov etc, I struggle to think of examples 3LD+ domains where they are owned and operated by completely different concerns than the parent. If at some point you could just register your own mysite.state.gov domains willy nilly that's probably before my initial time online around 2000. Another poster raised the point of hosting services which is valid. But at present outside of that example and the above I really can't think of an example where you have a link to entity.com and you have any significant cause to verify the identity beyond the 2LD. |
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| ▲ | strenholme an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I remember I had beach.santa-cruz.ca.us at one point registered to me. I owned beach.santa-cruz.ca.us, someone else owned santa-cruz.ca.us, yet someone else owned ca.us, and I believe Network Solutions took care of .us at the time. | | |
| ▲ | fc417fc802 12 minutes ago | parent [-] | | You say "registered" to you as though this was via an official registrar but surely you mean that someone rented ca.us and decided on their own to lease out subdomains to people? (Aside, I always see "owned" and "bought" but you can only ever "lease" under the ICANN system as the present situation so clearly demonstrates.) |
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| ▲ | ketzu 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Github Pages is probably the most well known one (on here). I think geocities had this as well? A lot of hosting services offer this in general. (eg render) Tumblr? (Might not count as the control over the page is more limited. The subdomains "are" still tumblr.) For reddits subdomains are redirects to subreddits of the same name, so I guess that doesn't count. | | |
| ▲ | davkan an hour ago | parent [-] | | None of these examples are of actual separate registration/ownership of a 3LD from the parent 2LD. Cloudflare owns the domain for myproject.pages.dev and hosts all the relevant infra. Not to say that there isn't a different entity represented by the 3LD than the 2LD but it's not exactly the same. Also I would not consider the examples of tumblr and reddit to be relevant. A person's blog on myprofile.tumblr.org is still the tumblr organization. This would be true for reddit even if they didn't redirect. Reddit admins moderate content on all subreddits. | | |
| ▲ | megagpt1 an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | You can buy example.it.com on many registrars. Someone bought it.com and operates it like a TLD. | | |
| ▲ | davkan an hour ago | parent [-] | | Interesting. I do wonder how many people outside scammers and squatters buy them. I'd rather have an .xyz or .biz address personally. |
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| ▲ | ketzu an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | I see, that's a valid way to think of domain ownership. When I read
> I have been taught and tell my users to check the domain to verify a website is real. I was thinking more of control of the content as "ownership" of the domain. | | |
| ▲ | davkan an hour ago | parent [-] | | The point on hosting providers is well taken. You do have to consider x.pages.dev as the wild west not cloudflare of course. One difference though is you will never receive an email from x.pages.dev asking you to do something. The domain ownership still does play a part. |
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| ▲ | an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | veltas 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yet that is a problem the owner of such a domain has freely entered into by buying that domain, it's their right to keep it despite this apparent problem, if they wish. | | |
| ▲ | dpoloncsak an hour ago | parent [-] | | Understood, and .name isn't being used enough in business to worry about 'the effect it will have on my users'. Just pointing out that it doesn't work like the 'norm' (although I guess it's not quite as unique as I thought, either) |
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| ▲ | amiga386 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Hello sysadmin. Good luck navigating the internet. What you should know, and what your browser does know and automatically applies cookie policy and colouring your URL bar, is the Public Suffix List: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_Suffix_List It will let you know that, for example, one does not need to own .co.uk to own the subdomain foo.co.uk. | | | |
| ▲ | gapan 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | There are still exceptions to this like .co.uk and many others. |
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