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| ▲ | bill_joy_fanboy 44 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| I just love how you assume being a father is easy. Grass is always greener and what not. Being a father comes with its own responsibilities and subjection to judgment by the community. The phrase "deadbeat dad" is in the common vernacular, but you rarely hear about "deadbeat moms" (trust me, they exist). > full brunt of the responsibility and expectation once the baby is born This is simply not true. If this were true, child support laws and requirements would not exist. You actually don't have full responsibility once the child is born. Even then, you can give the child up for adoption. You do have something that men don't have, which is full control over whether a birth happens in the first place. Men don't have this. |
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| ▲ | EdwardDiego 17 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm a father, have had sole custody of my five children for 8 nearly 9 years. Both parents have the same responsibility to their kids, to do the absolute best for them, and we should fight back against outdated cultural norms that assume that mothers are the default parent, and that fathers "babysit" their own children. |
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| ▲ | ZenoArrow an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > and expectation once the baby is born. This can be resolved by choosing a better man as a partner, one that is supportive and willing to be an equal partner. I understand finding someone that fulfills that as well as this person also being someone you're attracted to and compatible with socially is challenging, but I have seen relationships like this before so I know it's possible. |
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| ▲ | blfr 14 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | This cannot be resolved, you will not be an equal parent or even close to it the first few months, maybe even over a year. Breast feeding and various dependencies that develop (like that the kid wants to fall asleep at the breast) mean that most of the effort of parenting early falls on the mother. And then there's the fact of life that other stuff needs to be taken care of. Trash still needs to be taken out, groceries bought, etc further pushing you towards the stuff outside of parenting. This can hardly be resolved with money. We could hire nannies, get the top nursery, whatever. It would even be cost-efficient if it let mom work. However, the kid doesn't want to be without his mom and much more so she doesn't want to be away from him for a longer time! Even with me 4-6 hours is about it. | |
| ▲ | 0x20cowboy an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | My guess is that is easier said than done, and most of the time would only be known after it was too late. | | |
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| ▲ | eucryphia 13 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yes, there are no solutions, only trade offs. I believe procreation is the highest impact a human can achieve. The result of 14 billion years of cosmic evolution, a thermodynamic miracle, the waking universe looking back on itself. Imagine what we can achieve when robots can do the laundry and dishes. |
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| ▲ | apefulsin 3 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > Imagine what we can achieve when robots can do the laundry and dishes. First, you mean like clothes washers and dishwashers, which already exist? Second, my imagination of what we can achieve by procreation seems limited to "more humans". A trillion humans? A quadrillion humans? Enlighten me. |
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| ▲ | brobdingnagians 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| My wife has some severe challenges (hormonal and otherwise), so I have changed almost all diapers, and work part time/nights as a software developer purely for the fact that I need to be available to take our child regularly throughout the day, at one point I was full time childcare and job. My wife has a free pass to go on day trips and climbing excursions for her mental health. I guess the point is, to find someone who genuinely wants to help and participate, and find something that works for you. It's such a huge part of life, it's important to get the balance right. That's a difficult thing to do, but knowing what someone's core beliefs about family, responsibility, and expectations is important. |
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| ▲ | jkrom3 23 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think what you seek is a great companion to truly share the responsibilities with. I am a father of two wonderful kids. I do more drop offs than my wife, I changed just as many diapers / handled sick care, I handle more of the nighttime routines and give each kid a 10 minute back rub every night while my wife lays in bed (9 years and counting for my eldest) and cook more than my wife. She does clean more than me, folds more laundry, prepare their lunches, organizes their after care and play dates and babysitters more. She also worked harder when the kids were 0-6 months than I did for sure. I begrudge her for none of what I do “more”. It’s hard work but I love being with my kids and my wife works her tail off running her business. We have a great balance and I feel lucky. And yet life isn’t perfect and, it being hard work, it’s easy to point fingers instead of focusing on gratitude and real world trade offs (two things the paper and feminism generally lack). I think it comes down to ambitions. Do you have ambitions to be financially successful, to have a wonderful career or marriage or to be a great parent? Although feminists are loathe to talk of hierarchies for obvious reasons, they nevertheless have their use. So let me hierarchize: I truly have greater ambitions around being a parent than anything else. We also happen to be financially successful (more so because of my wife) but she has greater ambitions around that than I do. So anyway, I think we are the counter example to your last statement and show that it can be compatible. And many of my friends are similar. |
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| ▲ | phyzix5761 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This belittles men, especially those who are single fathers and have similar career struggles as single mothers. Our perceptions create our reality and if we constantly think we've been given the short end of the stick then we'll look for evidence around us to prove this perception. There's a whole other side to motherhood that comes with fulfillment, meaning, and growth. |
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| ▲ | petesergeant 43 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > This belittles men Does it, or is is a complaint about the patriarchy? I don't see any part of the OP comment that seems misandrist or reducing the role that engaged fathers play. | | |
| ▲ | bill_joy_fanboy 41 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The assumption that being a father is easy denies the lived experience of fathers. How would she know whether being a father is easy or not? She's never been one. | | |
| ▲ | petesergeant 17 minutes ago | parent [-] | | She would know that in her society there are different sets of expectations about fathers than mothers, and that seems to be what she's aiming at? Are you sure you're not over-reading into what she actually wrote? |
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| ▲ | DiggyJohnson an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| What an interesting comment. Do you feel that the aspects of fatherhood that you are most jealous of are relatively lower expectations of time commitment directly watching after the kid and encouragement of professional success? And if it’s not too prying to ask what are your ideal expectations for your partner? How important is their career? What is their ideal role in childrearing? |
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| ▲ | rc1 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Where I live, no Dad is being praised for changing a diaper. And golf clubs suffer. |
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| ▲ | noduerme an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| hm. I don't know why you couldn't be a great father. In the sense you're talking about. I know it would come with the physical baggage (or not, if you adopt?) A friend I love dearly is raising a 3 year old little girl... she never expected to get pregnant at 42... and she is as much a father as a mother. She lets the girl play in mud puddles while other parents stare, and collect bugs, and go look at art in museums. Absolutely unconcerned with how the world thinks a mom with a 3 year old should behave. [edit] it did slow my friend's career over the past few years, but, didn't kill it. And she's back to it now. But more importantly... I've never seen anyone love anything as much, even when she says she's frustrated out of her mind. And me, not having kids, I'm a little jealous of that feeling. [edit2] I'm an uncle, so maybe that's more my speed ... just jumping in for the easy fun parts and teaching the kids new things and being the visiting fireman. But that's not what being a father is, at least as far as my brother's day to day driving them to and from school and taking care of them. |
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| ▲ | adastra22 22 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Start with the Dad jokes. That's the gateway to gender freedom in parenting! |
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| ▲ | marttt an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > ... And be praised whenever a diaper is changed or I fetch the little one from school. I may be calling names now, but maybe this is an unnecessary "oldschool" meme that should already be forgotten. In my country (Estonia), I don't see dads actually being praised for every small childcare chore they courageously complete. Nobody does that, really. It's more like a meme that e.g. feminists love to bring about and keep alive in Facebook or elsewehere, thus showing an ongoing conflict between men and women (or -- being a man vs being a woman, with women actually as the superior sex or side). Let it fade away finally, for god's sake, and let dads quietly do their thing. Source: first-hand experience as a primary caregiver for our children for several years, while the mom was working full time. It was not really an optimal scenario in terms of sharing economical responsibility within a family (it did raise conflicts at times), but I liked "doing stuff" with both children, and never expected any direct admiration from society, etc. Luckily, I also didn't get almost any of this. :) I just did my thing as a dad, got children to kindergarten and then back home, etc, and those were some beautiful times in this sense. |
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| ▲ | sersi 22 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I'm in Hong Kong, fathers do get praised for childcare chores but it also comes with a downside. Despite being very active in my school PTA, being one of the only fathers being a "Class Parent", and spending a lot more time at my son's school, whenever my son is hurt the reflex they have is to always call the mother. They praise dads for being involved because they don't see it as normal and as they don't see it as normal, they always think that the mother is somehow the person to contact in emergencies. I'd much rather not be praised for every little thing and for people here to trust in a father's competence. |
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| ▲ | resonious an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You can hire a nanny. I know there's stigma there, too, but I know some "career women" who do this and it works fine. If you're that motivated (and your interests are lucrative enough), you can pull it off. |
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| ▲ | ben_w an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I don't know how much this would change things, expectations in particular, but there are guys like me who would like to be stay at home fathers. |
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| ▲ | globular-toast an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'd like to have my cake and eat it too. It's your choice whether you want to spend your life being envious about cherry-picked parts of other people's lives, or whether you learn to appreciate and enjoy the things you do have. This cherry picking is the exact poison that social media delivers, making people depressed the world over. I guess men and women have always felt it about each other. The big difference is that men cannot have what women have, but women can have at least some of what men have. |
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| ▲ | abenga an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Get a surrogate maybe? Should tick many of the boxes you have listed. |