| ▲ | vjvjvjvjghv 13 hours ago |
| My company has a H-1B guy that travelled home to India a few months ago and since then can't come back because the next date he can get with the US embassy is next year. Seems he may get stuck even longer... I am to some degree on board with keeping a closer eye on immigration, but the way the current administration does it feels intentionally cruel. The guy at my company has a house, wife, and kids in the US; his visa is perfectly legal, so it seems it would make sense to process these people quickly. But instead, he is now in some limbo. Same for ICE. Clamping down on illegal immigration makes sense, but it doesn't make sense for ICE to behave like some unaccountable secret police that hires the biggest assholes they can find who can then do whatever they want. |
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| ▲ | donohoe an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| "feels intentionally cruel" They are intentionally cruel. Its the point. They aren't even trying to hide it. The posts on official Whitehouse X account are borderline gleeful on topics of deportation and immigration. I'm in dis-belief at times. |
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| ▲ | LeifCarrotson an hour ago | parent [-] | | The intentional cruelty must be visible because they're doing it to gain support from those who want to see immigrants mistreated. They're not trying to change the rate of immigration, they're just looking to score political points. |
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| ▲ | itake 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm an American that lives abroad. I have first-hand experience how other countries treat 'immigrants'. H1B is a temporary non-immigrant visa. I could never imagine myself buying a home in a country where I don't have permanent access to that real estate. I am not opposed to voting to prevent non-PRs from owning real estate in order to keep housing prices lower for residents and prevent non-immigrants from shooting themselves in the foot. As I live abroad in temporary status, I keep one foot back home (USA) and am extremely mindful of the risks of needing to close up shop and move. If you want an economic perspective, consider reading Warren Buffet's "America’s growing trade deficit is selling the nation out from under us" article [0]. [0] - https://fortune.com/article/warren-buffett-foreign-trade/ |
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| ▲ | raz32dust 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think one of the fundamental problem with h1b is that it is labeled as "non-immigrant" whereas for all practical purposes it is really an immigrant visa. Why would a person who is supposedly having rare skills come to a country and spend their best years here without reasonable guarantee of permanency? People buy homes because it is a reasonable belief that they are going to be living here permanently and it has historically been true. In any case I don't see the point you are making. Should America be treating immigrants poorly because whichever country you're in makes you slightly uncomfortable to buy a home there? It's not an excuse for all this pain and cruelty. America should hold itself to higher standards. | | |
| ▲ | tsimionescu 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There is a very common pattern of people who go to work to some other, richer country for a set period of time with the sole purpose of making enough money to achieve an objective back home (provide for family, buy a house, retire, etc). I don't know how common this is between H-1B applicants, but it's extremely common in the EU for example. | | |
| ▲ | xxs 9 minutes ago | parent [-] | | in the EU there is no need for any visa (within member state) and essentially it's a desired feature of the EU. Another point is that speaking the local language in a richer country of the EU is less likely than speaking English (with English being official only in Ireland and Malta), so it's harder to settle - esp. with kids and school. |
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| ▲ | tyre 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Why would a person who is supposedly having rare skills come to a country and spend their best years here without reasonable guarantee of permanency? I agree with your overall point but the answer here is money. The earning potential in the US vs. e.g. India is drastic. | | |
| ▲ | aprilthird2021 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes but if you are worth that money to any company why would you assume one day it will all just end? That's not typical or normal for most careers | | |
| ▲ | achenet 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I think that in general, expecting a 'career for life' with one company, as was common in the 1950s, is a bit naive today. Companies change, needs change, people change, just because you like the job now doesn't mean you will in ten years. To give a tech industry example, right now you could be working for a cool startup, in a few years the startup gets acquired by a large tech company, they change the management style, it's not fun anymore. Like imagine you got hired at Github around 2010, would you definitely still be there today? Or even in 2020? Also, you have plenty of people who will have career plans like "work in finance in NYC for 5-10 years, amass a fat pile of cash, and retire to a small farm in the middle of nowhere". If I were living in China or India, I might see "spending 5-10 years in the US earning large piles of money and returning to my homeland to retire and live a life of leisure" as a valid career path. |
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| ▲ | bubblethink 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's not really money. Frankly, no 20 year old thinks that much about money. They do things that they like, whether that is going to school, working at a job, or starting up. And you don't know about the broken immigration system from the outside. The reason this problem is unique to India is due to country caps/DEI which prevents people from India on H-1B from getting a green card. | | |
| ▲ | achenet 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I disagree that no 20 year old thinks that much about money. If you're lucky enough to have had rich enough parents to not have to worry about money too much, yes, you'll probably optimize for doing things you enjoy, but people who spend a lot of their younger years with money issues will sometimes obsess about it and really focus their lives around 'getting rich'. I've noticed have similar phenomena with people who are deprived of certain important needs in their youth - people who are starved of a certain type of parental affection overcompensating by orienting their lives around getting more of it (eg women with daddy issues who are very promiscuous), people who feel disrespected and downtrodden who become obsessed with social status, people who get bullied and get into martial arts... If you've ever read Gone With The Wind, there's a line where Scarlett O'Hara says "with God as my witness, I'll never go hungry again". I suspect that many people who have similar experiences will react by orienting their lives in a similar manner. "I was deprived of something important, so I will react by over-indexing on that important thing I was deprived of, to avoid the future pain of being again deprived of it". | | |
| ▲ | dec0dedab0de an hour ago | parent [-] | | * If you're lucky enough to have had rich enough parents to not have to worry about money too much, yes, you'll probably optimize for doing things you enjoy, but people who spend a lot of their younger years with money issues will sometimes obsess about it and really focus their lives around 'getting rich'.* I think you’re in the right ballpark, and I have seen it play out exactly that. However, I think it is even more common for rich kids to obsess about getting richer. In my experience, as long as their needs are being met, most people get used to whatever lifestyle they are raised in, and stick with it. if they grew up in a family that chases wealth, and equates income with self worth, then they tend to keep doing that. |
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| ▲ | philipwhiuk 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > I think one of the fundamental problem with h1b is that it is labeled as "non-immigrant" I'm curious as a non-American - labelled by who? People who want to talk tough on immigration but benefit from H1Bs in their companies? Or the system itself in some way? | | | |
| ▲ | yipinwong an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] |
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| ▲ | Solstafir 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There are arguments from the other side too. Many H1B folks do keep one foot back in the country they are from. But then a lot of backlash on specifically Indian folks for sending most of their salary back home. They know that this is transient state, many of them have rented housing, but still these visas are not like weekly visas, they are for 3 years, people would build somewhat of a life in that time and uprooting them instantly is inhumane indeed. | | |
| ▲ | itake 10 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don't have opinions about them sending their salary back home. Obviously its better for the USA if the money stayed in the USA, but "earning money in one locality and spending it another" is really really really situation, even in the USA. American Police officers are famous for not actually living in the cities they work in. In each country I have lived in, I was a guest. With that knowledge, I carefully designed my life so uprooting would not be a painful inhumane process. If you throw a party and a guest refuses to leave, you wouldn't declare forcing them to leave your home in-humane. | | |
| ▲ | cousin_it 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don't really like the concept of "guests" being applied to people living somewhere for years, working, paying taxes, making families and friends, sending children to school and so on. I think it would be more humane if this concept was minimized, and instead the concept of "no taxation without representation" was applied. Fast track people as much as possible. Maybe one year as a voiceless "guest" is okay for a human being, but not more than that. | |
| ▲ | khriss 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > If you throw a party and a guest refuses to leave Show me where the govt has actually revoked their visa? Instead, because they cannot cancel the visa legally they are trying to create as much pain as possible for these visa holders hoping that some will give up and leave. | |
| ▲ | aprilthird2021 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | These people are productive members of our society who enrich our country and our economy. The idea that they are guests we are hosting is absurd | | |
| ▲ | arcbyte 41 minutes ago | parent [-] | | A siblings commenter stated this opinion much more persuasively for me. When these people arrive here, they are absolutely guests. It's incontrovertible that they are guests. Theres no debate. However, time is important and after a certain amount of time or perhaps even connection made to the community, a person does move from guest to neighbor. |
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| ▲ | latch 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Who's angry about how people are spending their already-taxed income? Is that really a thing? Is it sincere or just racism masked as "think of the economy"? (Honest question, Not American. Don't live there, news to me). | | |
| ▲ | itake 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | The big beautiful bill included a 1% foreign remittance tax for outbound international transfers funded using physical cash, money orders, and cashier's checks. | | |
| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | LadyCailin 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Which notably, doesn’t affect money transfers in general, just ways that poor people transfer money, so the concern as stated is not in good faith at all, but rather a way to further punish migrant workers, primarily Mexicans, and is absolutely racial animosity. | | |
| ▲ | account42 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | You could also say it affects money transfers that can be used to avoid taxing that money in the US. | | |
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| ▲ | 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | woodpanel 3 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Non-US citizen here. 100% Agreed. Where does this notion come from that a host society has any obligation to the foreigner / non pr? As if he was forced to move to America. | |
| ▲ | afavour 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > H1B is a temporary non-immigrant visa. It’s a dual purpose visa. You are allowed to pursue immigration (i.e. a green card) while you have an H1B. | | |
| ▲ | fg137 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | This. The dude has no idea what they are talking about. It's amazing even on HN people are openly giving their opinions while being completely uninformed of the facts. Imagine the discussions elsewhere. | | |
| ▲ | itake an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I’m informed on this topic… Can you correct the mistake? If I show up in China (or the USA) on a tourist visa with the plans to pursue a marriage and permanent residency, does that mean I get to backdate my permanent residency to the tourist visa because I’m able to pursue a marriage (PR)? | | |
| ▲ | tk781 a few seconds ago | parent | next [-] | | https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/foia/Noni... Can a nonimmigrant in H-1B or L-1 status intend to immigrate permanently to the U.S.? Nonimmigrants in H-1B or L-1 status can be the beneficiary of an immigrant visa petition, apply for adjustment of status, or take other steps toward Lawful
Permanent Resident status without affecting their status. This is known as "dual intent" and has been recognized in immigration law since passage of the
Immigration Act of 1990. During the time that the application for LPR status is pending, a nonimmigrant in valid H-1B or L-1 status may travel on his or her
visa rather than obtaining advance parole or requesting other advance permission from USCIS to return to the U.S. | |
| ▲ | afavour an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don’t understand the relevance. No one is using a tourist visa in this scenario and a tourist visa definitely isn’t dual intent in the way an H1B is. | | |
| ▲ | itake 12 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The "dual intent" permits seeking permanent residence, while seeking permanent residence on a tourist visa is not allowed, under most conditions. "dual intent" doesn't backdate permanent residency once you're started to seek. |
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| ▲ | 3838484949 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
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| ▲ | munksbeer 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Completely random, and not leading in any way, but where do you live currently? As in, which country, which city? | |
| ▲ | ab8 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | (a) The WSJ article is talking about "immigrant visas" a.k.a. green cards, not H1-Bs. (b) Even if we are talking about H1-Bs, it takes someone in India 10-15 years of waiting in line to get a green card. If someone were to buy a house in the interim, it doesn't seem so irrational to me. Its easy to blame the victim and say they should have known. | | |
| ▲ | itake 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | (a) I responded to OP's comment about H1-Bs, not the article itself. Even then, presumably, they paused processing new visa and the people that have already obtained them may continue to stay. If they fail to renew GC during this time, I agree that is a dark issue. (b) If I enter China on a temporary work permit visa, with a 15 year plan to obtain Chinese citizenship, no one will have sympathy for me if that plan is interrupted by legal, political, economic changes. Since I full well knew my current status and the risks of failing to obtain Chinese citizenship. Just because there is a possibility in the distant future for permanence, doesn't mean you can safely backdate it to today. | | |
| ▲ | TheDong 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | > If I enter China on a temporary work permit visa, with a 15 year plan to obtain Chinese citizenship, no one will have sympathy for me if that plan is interrupted I would have sympathy for you if it was interrupted by suddenly changing the requirements through no action of your own. Like, if you commit a crime, are a belligerent drunk, or whatever and they don't renew your visa over that, I have no sympathy. If you're unable to secure employment for an extended period of time, and they don't renew your visa, I also have less sympathy since that's part of the bargain you knew going in. If you play by the rules, but they reject a visa renewal for a reason like "we have too many immigrants from $x country, so we're rejecting y% of renewals" , well that's legally within the government's rights to do, but I'll have sympathy for you and think that you're morally in the right and China's failing its duty to its foreign residents. Likewise, this US one is a case of capricious rejection, the US government is not holding up its end of the deal you both thought you were agreeing to. Like, the deal with a work visa, even if it's not permanent, is "if you follow the rules and keep good steady employment, you can live here, but yes it's conditional on the work thing". I have sympathy for this hypothetical you, and also I have sympathy for those holding american visas who are impacted. |
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| ▲ | m3rc 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Genuinely how are people like you still around and semi-concious after the past 8 years | |
| ▲ | k8sToGo 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | When I was in the US as a student (F1 Visa) that is why I decided to go back home instead of trying to optain an H1B. It was just too risky for too long. I did not want to live a life where I had to expect to leave the next day. Besides, it was right at the beginning when Trump won the first time. | |
| ▲ | alphabeta3r56 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's by design too because immigrants visas are capped by country of birth. And the quota has nothing to do with reality. |
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| ▲ | apexalpha 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Same for ICE. Clamping down on illegal immigration makes sense, but it doesn't make sense for ICE to behave like some unaccountable secret police that hires the biggest assholes they can find who can then do whatever they want. To you. But the existence of a secret police has a lot of upsides if you plan to not leave office. |
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| ▲ | alexgoodhart 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| “Feels intentionally cruel”? Where have you been? There is so much evidence of the deliberate cruelty that it beggars belief you’d say that. |
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| ▲ | roarcher 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | So you agree with the person you're responding to, but you're attacking them for stating it with less melodrama than you would prefer? What a useless comment. | | |
| ▲ | schubidubiduba 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Unnecessarily euphemistic descriptions of cruelty should be rightfully called out | | | |
| ▲ | spacechild1 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | OP is right. There are too many people here in the comments who act surprised although it has been very clear what the Trump administration is trying to do. The cruelty is the point and they are not even trying to hide it. | | |
| ▲ | roarcher 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | > There are too many people here in the comments who act surprised That may be so, but since the person they're responding to is not one of them, I don't see the relevance of their comment. |
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| ▲ | jimmydoe 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| between this and fdr's japanese internment order, there're still a lot room to go crueler. every foreign-born, myself included, should get ready. |
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| ▲ | Georgelemental 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| An H-1B is a temporary non-immigrant visa. You're not supposed to rely on it to build a life in the US with no backup plan; that was never the intent of the law. However, successive administrations ignored the intent of the law, for so long that people began to rely on assurances that the law never promised. Now that the law is getting applied properly, those people are facing the consequences. It sucks for them, but continuing to not have rule of law would suck worse for all of us |
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| ▲ | afavour 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | H1B is explicitly a dual intent visa. You are allowed to pursue a green card while in the country on an H1B. It has been an accepted, valid path for a very long time now. If the government wishes to change that of course they can. But the humane approach would be to let those who have already started the process finish it. | | |
| ▲ | Georgelemental an hour ago | parent [-] | | You are allowed to pursue one, but the government is allowed to say no. Hence the need for a backup plan | | |
| ▲ | afavour 35 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I don't really think anyone is disputing that the government is able to change their approach to immigration (though it's telling they're doing it by just freezing appointments rather than passing a law), but that you can make changes to immigration law in a way that respects immigrants as human beings. The government is just choosing not to. Responding to "it's cruel" with "they're allowed to do it" is kind of sidestepping the core of the complaint. |
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| ▲ | fg137 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Your first sentence is factually wrong. I highly recommend that you refrain from commenting on any immigration related topics until you can get your facts correct. | | |
| ▲ | Georgelemental an hour ago | parent [-] | | https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/h-1b-spec... > This nonimmigrant classification https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b > The H-1B program applies to employers seeking to hire nonimmigrant aliens | | |
| ▲ | afavour 31 minutes ago | parent [-] | | This is a nonsense debate, really. The H1B is a non-immigrant visa but it's also dual intent so it allows you to pursue immigrant status. https://global.temple.edu/isss/faculty-staff-and-researchers... > The doctrine of H-1B dual intent has the following legal bases: > Unlike many nonimmigrant categories, I.N.A. § 101(a)(15)(H)(i) contains no requirement of proving there is a "residence in a foreign country which he has no intention of abandoning;" > The H category is specifically excluded from the I.N.A. § 214(b)'s presumption of immigrant intent; You say: > You're not supposed to rely on it to build a life in the US with no backup plan when in fact the visa very specifically allows it (as per the "no intention of abandoning"). People arriving in the US on an H1B visa with immigrant intent are absolutely following the law. Is it a good idea? Much more debatable. But they're not acting without precedent nor without specific legal text allowing it. |
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| ▲ | ab8 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Thanks for the info. But the WSJ article is taking about green card appointments, not H1-Bs. | |
| ▲ | Solstafir 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It is always possible to make rules stricter for the new applicants. While there was some complaints with visa price hikes, they were for new visas so it was okay. Denying existing legal visa holders entry or time to wrap things up doesn't seem bad to you? These are not criminals per say. | |
| ▲ | make3 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | brother H-1Bs are transparently vectors for foreign educated workers to come to the US to build lives and eventually get a green card, so the US doesn't have to actually build a functional education system. no one talented will come pay taxes and make your nice tech companies carry the S&P500 and in turn, everyone's retirement funds, if you treat them like hogs |
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| ▲ | UltraSane 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It IS intentionally cruel because Stephen Miller is a sadistic psycho. |
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| ▲ | thrance 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | You're getting downvoted but this is literally true. > According to The Atlantic, while helping Trump prepare for a debate in 2024, Miller got into an argument with an ally on immigration. Trump reportedly said, "Stephen... if you had it your way, everyone would look exactly like you", to which Miller replied "That’s correct". In another incident reported by The New York Times, Trump told a campaign meeting that Miller only wanted 100 million people who looked like him to live in the United States. |
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| ▲ | Hikikomori 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It is intentional. |
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| ▲ | aprilthird2021 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Trump supporters will be shocked when such people just start working from abroad for the company vs the company hiring unqualified American citizens |
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| ▲ | vjvjvjvjghv 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | That’s what my company is doing. Instead of hiring more people in the US they are hiring almost exclusively in other countries. The tariffs seem to be backfiring in a similar way. More production is moved outside the US to avoid the tariffs. | | |
| ▲ | jpgvm an hour ago | parent [-] | | Can't manufacture anything in America if all your inputs are tariffed out the wazoo. |
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| ▲ | refurb 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Having the only appointment be a year or more out isn’t new. Anyone I knew wouldn’t take the risk of leaving the US if they didn’t have an appointment secured. |
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| ▲ | pm90 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | Did you read the article? They postponed all appointments. | | |
| ▲ | genxy 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | The pro maga crowd has learned to take a less obvious, but just as callous approach to commenting over the last 6 months. They are trying to subtly slide the overton window in their direction. | | |
| ▲ | refurb 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Hilarious. My comment was replying to another comment that was discussing a different case, not the one in the article. Yet you throw around insults and labels at me. Who is the callous one here? | | |
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| ▲ | nujabe 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| But nobody asked him to buy a house, have a kid etc. He came here supposedly with the intention of not staying permanently. |
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| ▲ | thrance 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Sure, he should just have lived as a slave and not socialize with anyone until he left. H1Bs have been used as a path to citizenship for a long time. You can't just change the rules like that without destroying so many lives in a senseless act of cruelty. But the cruelty is the point. |
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