| ▲ | mrbluecoat 8 hours ago |
| "[GrapheneOS] lost most interest in that hardware due to the poor way privacy, security, updates and marketing based on these things has been handled." https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/28825-is-there-any-chance-o... |
|
| ▲ | NoboruWataya 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I'm sure their concerns are valid but just because GrapheneOS don't consider the Fairphone to meet their standards for security doesn't mean it is not worth considering for other people who may have different priorities. Fairphones have certain advantages over Pixels such as better repairability and more ethically sourced labour/components. IMO it's good to see the Fairphone do well (and I hope GrapheneOS's partnership with Motorola also goes well). |
| |
| ▲ | stymaar 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Unfortunately it looks like it's not just a issue of missing hardware security features: > Their partnership with Murena along with promoting it themselves with misleading marketing means no possibility of working with us. I want to like GrapheneOS, but the pettiness of its leadership is a real problem for the long term prospect of the project. | | |
| ▲ | hokumguru 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Is it pettiness or just sticking to their morals? Murena, as they mentioned, forwards data to OpenAI which is against pretty much everything Graphene stands for. | | |
| ▲ | Contortion 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think it's absolutely pettiness at this point, on both sides. I've lost track of the number of times I've seen a post about /e/OS on Mastodon with someone in the replies ranting about how everyone should use Graphene instead. It reminds me of the old joke about vegans. GrapheneOS and /e/OS' goals are different - the former is about security tightening and the latter is about deGoogling. They just had a public falling out and refuse to let it go. | | |
| ▲ | fabrice_d 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [flagged] | |
| ▲ | Cider9986 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | And yet GrapheneOS is better at everything that /e/ claims. | | |
| ▲ | teekert 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Not at running on sustainably produced, repairable hardware ;) (Wish it was though.) | | |
| ▲ | johnsea 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | You can buy used Pixels, e.g. from 8a up. I'd claim that this is much more ecological than buying a new Fairphone. I suppose that a Pixel is of a higher quality and has less defects than a Fairphone (which changed the ODM several times). -- This said, I would never use /e/ and Murena as I read too many things I don't like. | | |
| ▲ | SoftTalker 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | You are trusting that your used Pixel doesn't have some non-removable rootkit installed... depending on source, and if that's even possible I don't know but I am suspect of random used hardware on FB or eBay. |
|
|
|
| |
| ▲ | Grombobulous 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Only for one voice to text feature which is completely optional to use and can be replaced with something else. As another commenter mentioned, this voice to text feature is now an offline feature and no longer sends data outside the device. As another note, this Fairphone can be purchased without /e/OS at all. It’s now being sold in the US without Murena being involved at all. | |
| ▲ | oever 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I was not aware of Murena forwarding data to OpenAI. I'm sympathetic to Murena and their partnership with e/OS/. I looked up what it is about. /e/OS 3 uses OpenAI for Voice to Text. This is the statement where they explain this: > To implement this approach, we chose to use the OpenAI gpt-4 transcribe API that has been designed for this purpose, is cost-effective and efficient. https://community.e.foundation/t/clarification-about-voice-t... On my /e/OS phone, I've installed Whisper+ voice input and disabled 'Murena Voice to Text'. I never use this features. | | |
| ▲ | oever 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | In the current version of /e/OS, Voice to Text runs offline. > The earlier Voice to Text was a Premium-only, online feature: it streamed your speech to a third-party AI transcription service [...] The new Voice to Text is free, offline and on-device https://doc.e.foundation/os/apps/voice-to-text |
| |
| ▲ | krunck 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Murena, as they mentioned, forwards data to OpenAI which is against pretty much everything Graphene stands for. How? In what way? Source? | | | |
| ▲ | transdev12 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [dead] |
| |
| ▲ | Cider9986 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >I want to like GrapheneOS, but the pettiness of its leadership is a real problem I used to feel a bit similarly. But I've since realized they are one of the very few software projects that actually make sensible privacy and security choices. | |
| ▲ | Telaneo 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That does not seem like pettiness to me. That seems like a very good reason to not work with someone. | | |
| ▲ | NetMageSCW 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Because they used to have one feature that they’ve since replaced with an offline feature? | | |
|
| |
| ▲ | drnick1 14 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | The Graphene devs can be a bit obsessive about security, but with a starting price above $600, I think the average user is probably better off with a Pixel 10a bought on sale closer to $300. The stock Fairphone OS seems to include Google services, which is kind of surprising and at odds with the focus on user control and all that. |
|
|
| ▲ | gruez 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Here's a post with more specific allegations: https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-stand... |
|
| ▲ | dnautics 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| i dont get it, they are comparing eOS to graphene, not talking about the hardware. this would be like grapheneOS not using pixel because the stock android that ships with it does not respect privacy. am i missing something? |
| |
| ▲ | gruez 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | You still need to rely on the OEM to properly configure the bootloader, not leak the keys, and provide updated vendor blobs. | | |
| ▲ | dnautics 5 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Maybe I did not dig deep enough, but I did not see concrete claims that fairphone doesn't do this on either of the linked conversations? It was all suspicion dropped on murena and e/os, and some bad marketing by fairphone? |
|
|
|
| ▲ | protimewaster 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Fairphone also had the publicly available test key flagged as trusted by the boot loader at one point, which probably discourages projects like GOS, since it makes it harder to trust the hardware to not be a weak link in security. |
|
| ▲ | my123 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| One thing in the story is that the SPU - the secure enclave on Qualcomm chips that is separate from just running on TrustZone on the main processor - is only available on Snapdragon 8 and X tier products. It's market segmented away from 7 series and below. |
| |
| ▲ | microtonal 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Also, I think Qualcomm has only started supporting MTE on Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5. Older and cheaper SoCs do not support it yet. Outside that, I think only Google Tensor, recent Exynos generations, and Apple A-series support MTE (though IIRC Apple has an improved extension of it). |
|
