Remix.run Logo
object-a 7 hours ago

What should public health have done differently?

hattmall 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Treat junk food like cigarettes

object-a 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What is junk food? For example — are cheeseburgers and French fries junk food? What about when you make them at home, or at a fancy restaurant without artificial ingredients? Is it certain additives? If McDonalds makes a happy meal without additives, is it no longer junk food?

What does treat them like cigarettes mean? Tax them? Ban them within 15 feet of a building entrance? Put warning labels? Is giving or selling French fries to children a crime? Does this apply to food made at home?

wackget 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Most of the time when people try to define healthy food vs. junk food in a fair and unbiased way, the line gets drawn at "whole foods" vs "processed foods".

A typical burger meal is definitely processed food because the meat is processed mechanically and mixed from different sources (usually with added fat); the bun is made from refined flour and refined oils; and the fries are thinly-cut potatoes blanched and fried in more refined oils. (Not to mention a whole bunch of chemical additives which are the norm rather than the exception; and "hyperpalatability" tweaks which means the food is formulated to taste unnaturally good.)

You could perhaps argue that a home-made burger meal made using whole cuts of meat, a lean wholemeal bread dough, and potatoes roasted in animal fat could count as a healthy/whole food meal, but it would taste different to the typical hamburger meal we all associate with fast food.

Fast food also has an enormous marketing industry behind it which pushes it in unhealthy volume, with maximum convenience, and at (until recently, at least) affordable prices.

object-a 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Why does grinding the meat at home make a huge difference vs grinding it in a factory? Depending on the cut you choose, the condiments you add, and the portion size, a hamburger at home could be Lot less healthy than a McDonald’s burger. McDonald’s patties don’t have any fillers afaict.

The point is that “junk food” is a pretty amorphous and vague category. If you want to enforce portion or calorie restrictions you can do that, but it would have to be way more encompassing of a regulation than targeting “junk food”

ultrafro2 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

(to all the boolean questions): yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

to11mtm 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

And have a real conversation around Corn syrup.

Even today, a Soda with 'real sugar', at least for me, is far more satiating for thirst or a 'quick sweet treat' than the same brand/'flavor' using corn syrup, that includes both the big chains as well as the local names.

If I drink a soda with sugar in it, I usually wind up wanting water after. If I drink something with corn syrup, I usually just want more of whatever I just had.

brokensegue 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Is there evidence supporting the idea that sugar is more satiating? My understanding was that they were equally unhealthy

tacon 4 hours ago | parent [-]

No, the evidence is that there is no significant difference in satiety. HFCS is 55% fructose / 45% glucose, while sucrose is 50% fructose / 50% glucose.

to11mtm an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Well, There's at least this as a start... https://nutrition.org/sugars-created-equal-lets-talk-fructos...

Not saying Sugar itself is much better, however, yes, there is research indicating that the two are metabolized differently, so that difference in composition should be considered.

brokensegue 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

yeah that was my understanding. for some reason corn syrup is vilified. the real problem there (as I understand it) is corn subsidies.

llm_nerd 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Real sugar in your soda pop? What are you, a health nut? Must be a real my body is a temple sort.

Seriously though, it's a dogshit thing to consume whether it is sweetened with HFCS or sucrose.

"Even today, a Soda with 'real sugar', at least for me, is far more satiating"

Did you know that in the acidic environment of a cola, sucrose quickly degrades into fructose and glucose (and if it didn't, your enzymes literally immediately crack sucrose into them). You know, exactly the same fructose and glucose that would be added by HFCS. The proportions differ a tiny amount, but this notion that one is satiating and the other isn't should really send you down a path of self-discovery, where you determine how you fell for nonsense.

object-a 4 hours ago | parent [-]

The idea that there’s some magic ingredient that makes soda a healthy choice is why discussion of “Junk food” Is so weird

p_j_w 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

People have tried. Any time the government tries to do anything a substantial portion of the electorate throws a childish hissy fit and tries to make out that the Bolsheviks are coming to make their fries less tasty for no good reason.

apparent 6 hours ago | parent [-]

What's interesting is that it's different parts of the electorate that get upset. When Republicans wanted to make junk food/soda ineligible for food stamps, Dems got upset. And when Dems wanted to tax large sodas, Republicans/libertarians got upset.

I think the former makes much more sense than the latter, since it is literally being funded by the govt. That's a reasonable first step, or possibly only step, especially considering that most people on food stamps are also on govt-funded/subsidized healthcare (meaning taxpayers will end up footing the bill when they require expensive treatments resulting in part from an unhealthy diet).

llm_nerd 5 hours ago | parent [-]

This is a pretty insincere take.

apparent 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Feel free to elaborate on my alleged insincerity. Was I insincere in noticing that there are partisan patterns at play, or insincere when pointing out that the govt should have more control over govt-run/taxpayer funded programs, as opposed to transactions between private parties?

I am sincerely curious to know your opinion.

llm_nerd 4 hours ago | parent [-]

A "sin tax" on unhealthy products impacts everyone equally. The Republican plan has absolutely nothing to do with health (and they've thankfully barely even tried to pretend it is, instead just going with a "well why should they get treats?" punitive angle), and everything to do with punching down. It's amazing that there are tens of millions of terrible people in the US who will vote for staggering levels of corruption, self-dealing, stupidity, and incompetence so long as those people will punch down on the right people.

As LBJ correctly observed - "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." It's amazing how punching down can get votes.

EDIT: insincere guy, who seriously tried to pretend that it's "partisan" to find a difference between those initiatives -- one predicated on health concerns, the other on punching down -- is now crying for moderation assistance because I quoted a US president, in a situation that is perfectly applicable to exactly this policy that they are laughably trying to equivocate.

Howler troll behaviour.

apparent 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Replying to your edit:

Amazing that you again allege insincerity, with zero evidence. You then go on to make false claims about what I said and avoid the obvious point that my problem is not with the historical figure that you quoted, but the fact that you injected race into a conversation that was about food.

As for whether you violate the HN guidelines, the number of your recent comments that are greyed out tends to indicate that I'm not the only one who thinks you're out of step here.

weberer 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You obviously do not know what the word "sincere" means. Please look it up before posting further.

apparent 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

How does any of this make my comment insincere? Even if I agreed with it, I wouldn't understand how it proves your original accusation.

I also don't love your injection of flame-bait racial comments, which probably violate HN guidelines.

bobthepanda 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Unfortunately in most countries the blocker is politics, not the desire of public health officials to do anything. See the current US admin going after vaccines while declaring open season for peptides.

mpalczewski 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

this is exactly right. We've got this society that readily accepts unpleasantness as what you need to do to get ahead(I'll question that but it's beside the point). People regularly accept suffering of all sorts. However, ask someone to eat a boring meal. that's a hard no. So, you've got large parts of society that won't accept that perhaps they shouldn't eat like children.