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miyoji 4 hours ago

The word is "management", not "leadership". This comes across as a LinkedIn post filled with vague notions and weak writing.

The conclusion also completely contradicts a previous point, which is that managing an LLM is not like managing a human. So the skills are, in contradiction to that LLM-ism of a conclusion, new. The author isn't using their people management skills, they're using new LLM-management skills. They think the two are similar, but didn't bother breaking down how they're the same vs where they contrast. It's just a lazy observation expanded out to a short essay that says nothing interesting.

mikeocool 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If it is like management, it’s like the most low effort version of management.

You just blindly tell it what to do without any regard for its motivations or morale. If it does something wrong, you just delete it and slightly rephrase your instructions and have it try again.

khuey 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, it's management with little concern for human factors because you can abuse or and even fire your reports and summon new ones of equal competence at will.

Eddy_Viscosity2 an hour ago | parent [-]

Isn't that just regular management?

demibabs an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I agree. (Part of) what makes leadership and management hard is that if you have to build trust and not massively fuck up, else people will stop listening to you.

AI will always listen to you, so it’s kind of a different ball game.

otekengineering an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> You just blindly tell it what to do without any regard for its motivations or morale

You're holding it wrong. Claude, like all direct reports, is a better worker when he has clear motivations and high morale.

knollimar an hour ago | parent [-]

I find it's mkrale is inversely correlated with direction following.

I nedd claude to think it's getting fired to listen

sixhobbits 17 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Management is following a defined repetitive process to coordinate a team across some or all of projects (who should do what and how long should they spend on it), skills (is their work up to scratch and how can they improve) and HR (do they need to be paid more to not quit and do they need to be told to take sick leave to recover).

"Leadership" is more LinkedIn thought leadership BS but I think it's a useful distinction to make from management and is more about inspiring people to work towards a common goal, making difficult decisions with imperfect information and finding creative solutions to business problems.

To me working with AI does feel more like the latter, there isn't yet a clear path and set of processes for everyone to follow and getting the agents to do what you want does take similar skills in terms of inspiration (finding the right prompt) and creativity (figuring out how to join all the shiney new toys into reliable systems)

LogicFailsMe 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sure sure, but it is surprisingly like managing an intern, or a fresh engineer where there is a pre-existing language barrier. At least in my experience it is. There might be a dash of carefully negotiating with the devil himself in the mix to make sure you ask for precisely what you wish to have built or you get something that meets the spec of what you told it but it isn't what you wanted.

netsharc 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

And sometimes this intern which can produce code at blazing speeds get some subtleties wrong, so you can never trust their output and have to check every time.

And when you point out the error they sometimes insist what they did is correct, or they confidently "correct" it to something still wrong.

rayiner 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> And sometimes this intern which can produce code at blazing speeds get some subtleties wrong, so you can never trust their output and have to check every time.

You're just describing junior employees lol.

netsharc 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Juniors turn to seniors. You can never trust AI won't glitch...

lol

rayiner an hour ago | parent [-]

Yes, I agree, AI's risk creating a huge pipeline problem.

LogicFailsMe 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Babylon 5 Crusade had a device called The Apocalypse Box. It knew everything and you could ask it questions. Unfortunately, it lied strategically so as to both give you an edge here and there whilst it drove you insane with all the lying. I have always seen the similarity to large language models here myself and that was in 1999.

https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Apocalypse_Box

What has surprised me is that JMS has never seemingly noticed this.

smoe 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

To me, it feels closer to dealing with a personal outsourcing agency than working with internal coworkers, because the agents have zero skin in the game.

It's great. You can get a lot of stuff done in parallel. But it's much more a game of checkbox compliance than working with someone who has their head in the same context as you all day. Even a very junior teammate has some situational awareness inside a company/team.

rayiner 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The conclusion also completely contradicts a previous point, which is that managing an LLM is not like managing a human.

For small scale stuff, it seems very much like managing a human. I've been using Grok and Claude for some small GUI apps, and it's incredible how accurate Claude in particular is for handling vague instructions.[1] I can take a screenshot of some part of the UI and drop it into the chat and say ("The spacing here looks weird, give me a few recommendations on how to fix it."). You can also say stuff like "make this look more modern and conform to modern AppKit guidelines." You don't have to micromanage it, at least when you break things down into small features. (But that's true of humans too.)

[1] Claude is significantly better than Grok at doing Mac UI app development. Interestingly, Grok is significantly better than Claude at legal research and summarizing/analyzing non-code documents.

iugtmkbdfil834 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I will offer a perspective on a currently incomplete thought. It is management, but it is management of how management imagines managing a human, which, lets face it, is not that great. In a weird way, management as a group now has almost exactly what they have always wanted: an answer presented in a cheerful and serious way that requires expertise to disprove as bs.

3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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DrewADesign 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Sounds like that leader should fire his agent.

terrut 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't think there is much crossover unless your model responds well to being anthropomorphized.

I find LLM's to be very easy to manage since they at least to me, appear more rational the humans. Myself included.

andai 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I tell it "believe in yourself" and task goes from unsolvable to trivial.

It's human ;)

jnovek 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

“Leadership”, whether you like the LinkedIn-ism or not (I also think it’s stupid), generally refers to upper management, not people management.

At my startup, my team reached a headcount of ~30 and I had to design process to keep things moving. Getting a bunch of disparate parts in even a 100 person company to produce the artifacts needed to create software is a massive undertaking that doesn’t involve people management at all. The two responsibilities can be completely divorced from each other if you want.

I never thought I’d be dusting off those skills again because I do strictly IC work now, but I’m now using them every day. It feels (a subjective term, which the author used as well) like when I was in “leadership”.

AuthorizedCust 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Leadership is a mutual influence process that happens outside formal authority. It’s not a corporate title or rung on a ladder. If one is a leader, that’s a status informally conveyed by the leader’s voluntary followers.

jnovek 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

These are different definitions of the same term. Yes, “leadership” is a stupid word to co-opt, but it’s been used this way for 20+ years and I suspect that you know what the author means.

There’s a very interesting conversation here that apparently HN doesn’t want to have today about how LLMs seem to respond to the same sorts of process structures as humans, I don’t know why we’re hung up on semantics.

Jare 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> how LLMs seem to respond to the same sorts of process structures as humans

Pattern recognition to be sure, and structured communication conveyed with proper contextualization and emphasis, are common to both humans and LLMs. (at least if you want to get anything done)

3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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spacechild1 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Exactly. For example, you can be the leader of an open source project.

phil21 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yep a leader is simply someone people follow.

That’s it. That’s all it is. All the books, leadership courses, etc. are lipstick on that pig. I suppose it can happen, but I’ve never seen someone who is a terrible leader educate themselves into being a great one. It’s pretty close to a natural skill you can build on and develop.

The term has been usurped by the usual suspects, but the definition is still the same on the ground.

LLMs require zero leadership skills. They do require strong management skillsets. These are not remotely the same thing.

7952 an hour ago | parent [-]

I think at some level that "following" bit requires a certain sacrifice or loss of autonomy that people don't strictly have to suffer. And good leaders tend to be able to get people to accept that willingly without needing to invoke authority. An LLM is making no sacrifice, they don't value autonomy so there is no leadership.

andsoitis 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Leaders lead. Managers manage. It is something you do, rather than your title.

Some leaders are also great managers. Some managers are also great leaders.

But not all managers are leaders.

simonw 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think of leadership as distinct from management. Importantly, I think you can be in a position of leadership without needing to be in a position of management.

Management requires direct reports: you make decisions which directly impact the careers of other people.

Leadership can be more subtle than that. You can influence people without needing to directly manage them.

John Carmack at Facebook/Meta is a great example. He was an IC - they had to invent a new level of the IC ladder for him! Definitely a leader, not a manager (at that company).

(Amusingly, I got to attend some "leadership" classes at Stanford a while ago. My main takeaway was that the way to create leaders is to put a bunch of people in a room and tell them that they're "leaders" until they start to believe it.)

roenxi 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Being picky with words, you can be a manager of something other than people, it is the same broad skillset. Managing people has a few skills that are people-specific, obviously. But you can manage servers, manage widgets, etc.

Which makes it clearly distinct from leadership, because it is very hard to lead something that isn't alive. It is hard to lead a server.

jameshart 2 hours ago | parent [-]

… or at least it always used to be hard to ‘lead’ a server.

But now that the server has an agentic interface maybe that is changing.

jameshart 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The best distinction I have heard for ‘leadership’ vs ‘management’ is that you manage things but you lead people.

So you can manage a project or a budget or a facility or an office or a process. But if you need to get people to do things, that requires leading not managing.

The problem with applying this to an AI agent is that it is a thing that thinks it’s a person.