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| ▲ | 0xbadcafebee a day ago | parent | next [-] | | Not all sarcasm is insulting, my dude | | |
| ▲ | otterley a day ago | parent [-] | | “Be kind. Don’t be snarky.” is literally the first guideline in the “on comments” section. | | |
| ▲ | 0xbadcafebee a day ago | parent [-] | | There is a significant difference between sarcasm meant to insult, and sarcasm meant to be playful humor with a point. Common uses of sarcasm include witty or playful language, humorous banter, the expression of frustration at unfortunate events, self-deprecation, and as a coping mechanism for difficult situations. I see that you couldn't tell the difference in that situation, but trust me, that person was not insulting you. They included themselves in the joke. | | |
| ▲ | otterley 20 hours ago | parent [-] | | The language is clear and unambiguous, and is intended to set a floor for the caliber and quality of discussion here. I take your point, but the humor, if it was that, was made clumsily and was not well received. It’s not just me who felt that way; it was downvoted and eventually killed. | | |
| ▲ | 0xbadcafebee 17 hours ago | parent [-] | | Is it though? Almost all the guidelines are curt and open to interpretation. For example, what counts as snarky? What counts as kind? Is there some hidden arbiter in between the characters I can't see? Not everyone will know exactly what these mean in every situation. In truth, the rules here are intentionally vague, so they can be used as a cudgel by people who don't like what they read. For the mods it's for behavioral control, and for the users it's for thought control. The mods want the website to be a financial tool for YC, and the users want all opinions to mirror their own. But HN is built awkwardly, and forces too many different kinds of users into one tiny space. So the mods do what they can to remove submissions and kill comments, to make the appearance of some kind of nerd chat gestalt. This thread is an example of that failed attempt at enforced harmony. You can't punish people into electing to behave the way you want, it just makes them angry. | | |
| ▲ | otterley 17 hours ago | parent [-] | | I suspect if you show this thread to enough random people, a clear majority opinion will form on whether that comment was snarky and unkind. The language in the Guidelines isn’t objective, but I also don’t think it’s all that difficult to understand if you were taught the difference between being forthright and being sarcastic, and the difference between being gracious and being unkind. Of course some people will get angry and defensive when they cross the lines and get called out on it. That’s just human nature. (YouTube is chock full of examples.) It doesn’t mean enforcement isn’t necessary, though. The owners have made it clear that they don’t want this site to devolve into a free-for-all full of sniping and bile. Their house, their rules. Want to be a dick? There are other venues for that. | | |
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| ▲ | margalabargala a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | otterley a day ago | parent [-] | | “Be kind. Don’t be snarky.” is literally the first guideline in the “on comments” section. | | |
| ▲ | margalabargala a day ago | parent [-] | | Right, and plenty of comments containing non-zero snark are fine. There's a line over which comments become unreasonable. If mine was over that line, so are a good 30% of HN comments. Seeing as those comments exist, I think your comment flagging criteria are what need to be adjusted here. Frankly I think you're just annoyed because the reaction to your comment was not "oh wow this guy could work for Jane Street if he wanted but he doesn't because he doesn't want to move cities. Wow so cool" | | |
| ▲ | otterley 20 hours ago | parent [-] | | The language is clear and unambiguous, and is intended to set a floor for the caliber and quality of discussion here. If 30% of comments here are equally bad, that means it’s not enforced as well as it could be. It doesn’t mean we’re intentionally lowering the standards. My intent when I made that statement was not how you interpreted it. Its people genuinely impress me. And besides, what if I could work for them? Wouldn’t you be happy for me? Why the sour grapes? As the Guidelines also state (paraphrasing): use the most charitable interpretation of a fellow member’s contributions. | | |
| ▲ | margalabargala 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well, you certainly didn't use the "most charitable interpretation" of my comment, now did you? Why not assume that I too am as competent as you see yourself and simply also don't want to move to Chicago where Jane Street definitely is? It's a weak person who hides behind rules they don't themselves follow. Lots of companies manage to impress lots of incompetent, arrogant people. Your initial comment sounded like such a person and mothing you've said since has done anything to disabuse the reader of that. "The rules say you're not supposed to reply with sarcasm! Flagging your comment!" says the person that Jane Street would totally love to hire. Like I said, you're just annoyed someone is criticizing your arrogance. If you weren't being arrogant, then my initial reply is utterly unobjectionable; it's only unkind or sarcastic in response to the arrogant interpretation of your initial comment, and is inert to the "best possible" interpretation by the rules you don't follow but want others to. | | |
| ▲ | otterley 18 hours ago | parent [-] | | facepalm Way to double down on being a dick, dude. | | |
| ▲ | margalabargala 11 hours ago | parent [-] | | Just trying to help you have some self awareness... Calling me a dick seems to violate the kindness rule you are about so much. Don't the guidelines say you should not comment and move on? | | |
| ▲ | otterley 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Just trying to help you have some self awareness... Doctor, heal thyself. | | |
| ▲ | margalabargala 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | Sir, one of us has repeatedly brought up the other's alleged violations of guidelines, while repeatedly violating them himself. You are an arrogant hypocrite. As a sometimes arrogant non-hypocrite who has that self awareness, I feel I am well positioned to help you notice yourself in the mirror. | | |
| ▲ | otterley 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | facepalm https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/ | | |
| ▲ | margalabargala 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Egads, you got me! A half-relevant comic that, when posted, excuses and justifies all hypocrisy by the poster...I want you to know, I'm devastated right now. Just devastated. Gosh, I never would have pointed out your arrogance and rudeness if I knew you possessed such a powerful tool. | | |
| ▲ | otterley 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | facepalm Look, dude. At this point two of your most aggressive comments have been downvoted and killed. That is additional community feedback you should be paying heed to, and it’s clear that you’re just not getting the message. Instead you just keep doubling down. Take the L and move on. If you think you’re still in the right, show this thread to your spouse (if you have one), parents, manager, and trusted friends who will give you unvarnished feedback, and see what they say. Consider also that of all the replies to my original comment, yours is the only one that responded with indignity out of a misplaced belief that I was humblebragging. I’m through with this discussion. | | |
| ▲ | margalabargala 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Right, yes, you immediately flagged and downvoted my first two comments. Well done. If you thought my initial comment was remotely aggressive, I feel sorry for how much stress you must go through each day. I've encountered an asshole. It doesn't happen often, but it does sometimes happen. I'm sure I'm just one of many assholes you meet |
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