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miyoji 3 days ago

The good part of this: don't fall into the trap of believing the proposition "an idiot disagrees with me, so I must be right". That's solid advice, idiots believe countless true things and geniuses believe innumerable false things. The intelligence of a random interlocutor has nothing to do with the validity of their opinions, really, so it shouldn't serve as evidence one way or another. Generally, I try to pay attention to good arguments against my ideas, not good arguers.

I think the advice for who to listen to is very bad, though. He calls it being "slightly elitist", but his bar is beneath the ground. The example for discussing politics is knowing what the three branches of government are - I knew that when I was 8 and I don't think I had anything interesting to say about politics back then. I definitely couldn't have given a meaningful critique on the latest policy debate, and neither can anyone possessing merely the most basic knowledge of rudimentary facts on the topic.

imoverclocked 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

I think knowing about the branches of your government is a prerequisite to having an opinion or good argument about it. It’s not sufficient to just know that but it’s a good filter in the USA where a surprising number of people have “opinions” but lack the most basic knowledge.

miyoji 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

It's a prerequisite, but so is breathing. It's necessary but not sufficient.

The bar I like to use is pretty simple: do you know who represents you in Congress (I am American so this is my bias, but substitute your country's equivalent if there is one)? As in, your state's two Senators and your district's Representative? If not, you probably don't vote or don't pay attention when you do, and you've definitely never called your Congresspeople to complain about their votes, so you probably don't really care that much about whatever it is you say you care about, since you haven't done the easiest thing you can do to make a change.

It's not perfect, and no criteria will be, but there are tons of people who can rattle off "executive, legislative, judiciary" who nevertheless don't know ball.

Ntrails 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Having valid opinions about politics and engaging with the existing political system are not the same thing. I am super happy to chat about political questions (of all sorts) irrespective of my interest in voting.

Note that when I say "talk politics" I really mean "discuss things controlled by politicians", not "discuss politicians". If you mean the latter it is a super fair bar to set!

bratbag 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You are filtering out politically engaged people who have assesed the current mechanisms of state to be too flawed to be worth continued interaction.

This is likely quite a large group.

Gormo 2 days ago | parent [-]

More fundamentally, you'de be filtering out people's views on policy based on their engagement with the horse-race side of politics. That's not a particularly well-aligned criterion, regardless of the reasons why someone might not be immediately aware of which politicians are in which seats.

tonyedgecombe 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>It's a prerequisite, but so is breathing. It's necessary but not sufficient.

It's the fizzbuzz of political debate.

bigstrat2003 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The bar I like to use is pretty simple: do you know who represents you in Congress (I am American so this is my bias, but substitute your country's equivalent if there is one)? As in, your state's two Senators and your district's Representative? If not, you probably don't vote or don't pay attention when you do, and you've definitely never called your Congresspeople to complain about their votes....

I see what you're getting at, but I think you need to refine your test a bit. I don't know who my representatives are off the top of my head, and I actually have contacted them within the last 6 months! It's just not information that has stuck in my brain. Likewise, I both vote and pay attention when I vote - I do some research on candidates' policy positions and (if applicable) their track records on issues that matter to me. But if you asked me to name them, I would still be helpless without looking that info up.

I think what you're trying to get at is "does this person actually engage with representatives and pay attention when voting", but memorizing the names of your representatives is not 1:1 with that. Some people will be engaged and not have the names memorized, and others will have the names memorized but be disengaged.

dataflow 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> and you've definitely never called your Congresspeople to complain about their votes

Or, you know, you haven't lived at the same address for twenty years. In your imagined world where every single citizen either has something so pressing to call their representatives about or is just ignorant, you're still basically filtering out everybody who moved for a job/college/SO/whatever recently. I guess in your mind it's only fitting that they're disqualified from having an opinion? For reference about 12% of Americans change residence each year.

EA-3167 3 days ago | parent | next [-]

As always everyone is entitled to their opinions, the question is how much should the rest of us care.

galleywest200 3 days ago | parent [-]

Just like how sometimes I consider how little I should care about a social media frequenter’s opinions. I am, for better or for worse, getting near the last willing comment I am going to leave on this, or any, social media site.

That is not due to age or illness, it is due to enshittification. Not by the admin but by the populace.

EA-3167 3 days ago | parent [-]

Very bottom of the page, you can see links to the long and storied history of people saying “HN is bad now,” and why it’s an opinion you don’t really need to share.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I’d throw in for free that when you’re done at a party… say goodbye to your friends and leave. The party in general doesn’t need an announcement of your dissatisfaction and departure. Safe travels.

stryan 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Feels a little disingenuous to quote this line and not the full section where OP was just asking you to know your local representatives.

I've never called anyone about anything political, and I also haven't lived at the same address (or even in the same state) for 20 years but I still know at least who my senators are and some of my representatives. State elections are every two years; you have to almost actively not pay attention to not know anything about yours.

ElevenLathe 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Have you seen our district lines in this country? One of the underdiscussed problems with gerrymandering is that, in addition to being undemocratic in the obvious ways, it obscures who your representatives are -- especially if you live in a city. Take a look at the US district map around Austin. There is no "rep from Austin" just a crapshoot about which bizzarely-shaped rural district your random part of the city is attached to to nullify your vote. This is repeated all over the country to various degrees and state house districts are even smaller and often weirder.

I agree with you on governors and senators but it's very easy not to learn who your other representatives are, because it requires close attention to detailed street by street maps that change every census.

stryan 2 days ago | parent [-]

A fair point! Both states I've lived in so far have not been gerrymandering-battleground states so I haven't had that problem.

I'm willing to take a softer stance than OP's start and be okay with just knowing basically any of your representatives i.e. some combination of your two senators and one or more representatives.

mindslight 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've lived in the same district for a while, have recently called my national senators, congressional representative, and state representative, and I'm still coming up hazy. If you gave me a list that included the current ones plus a bunch of names that have never been in politics, I would definitely pick them out. But if you asked me to list them from memory, there is a good chance I'd name some of the previous office holders.

The general point being that simplistic rules can be great heuristics, but turning them into strict logical conditions is doomed to failure. Even about simple "fizzbuzz" style things.

dataflow 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> Feels a little disingenuous to quote this line and not the full section where OP was just asking you to know your local representatives. [...] you have to almost actively not pay attention to not know anything about yours.

Feels disingenuous to ignore the fact that what I said applies to the rest of the comment too, don't you think? If it isn't obvious: typically the first year after a move - likely more, at least until House elections - most people will have zero reason to know their representatives' names, let alone keep remembering it for years. Who ever forgets a name they learned during a campaign a couple years ago, right?

For starters, something like almost ~half of students move away from their families to attend college. And then look at moves for jobs and retirement and everything else. And then when an incumbent leaves, all of their constituents end up in a similar boat as someone who just moved. And I'm not even beginning to touch the fact that a lot of people's unawareness of politics is (spoiler, I know) due to them not having the luxury to be able to devote as much bandwidth to it as HNers do. All these people shouldn't have any political opinions whatsoever until they figure out their representatives because... some wise guy on HN thinks knowing your representative's name is a good litmus test for whether you can tell good from bad? Do you expect any other response than "screw you"?

> I've never called anyone about anything political

Quite a confession given the side you're standing on. You'd think such a model citizen would've at least cared to contact their rep one damn time to suggest something about such a serious issue. Like maybe helping educate people about the government and politics better so they become as enlightened as the others.

If you (and/or parent, whoever feels this way) genuinely want a good outcome for something so serious instead of standing on a high horse and looking down on the uneducated, maybe actually go campaign to put your lovely literacy tests in the constitution, or whatever else would advance your cause forward. If you have some integrity, perhaps also campaign to fund the education system better and make it easier for citizens to vote in the same amendment, so that you're actually helping the people you presumably care about. Until you actually do something meaningful about this, I hope you can understand that your opinions about who should have opinions really won't come across the way you'd presumably hope they do.

Izkata 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> let alone keep remembering it for years.

This one for me. I have my own viewpoints and when elections come around I look up the candidates to see who best matches, then once the election is over forget pretty quickly. Unless politics is your entertainment it seems completely normal to not keep their names in mind.

stryan 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> Feels disingenuous to ignore the fact that what I said applies to the rest of the comment too, don't you think?

Then quote the whole thing your responding to, otherwise your response seems disproportionately overreacting.

> For starters, something like almost ~half of students move away from their families to attend college. And then look at moves for jobs and retirement and everything else. And then when an incumbent leaves, all of their constituents end up in a similar boat as someone who just moved. And I'm not even beginning to touch the fact that a lot of people's unawareness of politics is (spoiler, I know) due to them not having the luxury to be able to devote as much bandwidth to it as HNers do.

I am very aware of that situation. I moved away from my home town and state for school, I moved cities post college three times, and I am now quite literally in the middle of a move to another state. While I won't pretend that I'll immediately get into the weeds of local city politics, I've still participated in local politics and I will participate in politics in my new city/state come this fall.

>All these people shouldn't have any political opinions whatsoever until they figure out their representatives because... some wise guy on HN thinks knowing your representative's name is a good litmus test for whether you can tell good from bad? Do you expect any other response than "screw you"?

Consider the context of the comment: "do you know who represents you in Congress [...]. If not, you probably don't vote or don't pay attention when you do, and you've definitely never called your Congresspeople to complain about their votes, so you probably don't really care that much about whatever it is you say you care about, since you haven't done the easiest thing you can do to make a change."

If you don't know the names of your representatives you can't vote for them. Seems pretty straight forward to me. I think it's pretty fair to say if you're complaining about a political situation but haven't even voted about it you probably haven't tried that hard.

> Quite a confession given the side you're standing on. You'd think such a model citizen would've at least cared to contact their rep one damn time to suggest something about such a serious issue. Like maybe helping educate people about the government and politics better so they become as enlightened as the others.

To be clear, I've contacted my representatives plenty of times, I just haven't called them. I hate phone calls. But I have written emails, physical letters, and on several occasions spoke to them in person at events to express my issues.

> If you (and/or parent, whoever feels this way) genuinely want a good outcome for something so serious instead of standing on a high horse and looking down on the uneducated, maybe actually go campaign to put your lovely literacy tests in the constitution, or whatever else would advance your cause forward. If you have some integrity, perhaps also campaign to fund the education system better and make it easier for citizens to vote in the same amendment, so that you're actually helping the people you presumably care about.

1. I have campaigned for better education funding; I used to work in higher education.

2. No one mentioned literacy tests, so I have a suspicion there's a lot of background context in your head that you're imposing here. Either way, I have no interest in them.

jhbadger 2 days ago | parent [-]

>If you don't know the names of your representatives you can't vote for them. Seems pretty straight forward to me.

The names are printed on the ballot, along with party affiliation. No memorization needed. In a primary there may be a bit of research needed, but even then you get a sample ballot beforehand so you can research the alternatives, but when the final election happens you generally only have two choices in the US per position and you simply vote for your party of choice.

stryan 2 days ago | parent [-]

> The names are printed on the ballot, along with party affiliation. No memorization needed. ... > but when the final election happens you generally only have two choices in the US per position and you simply vote for your party of choice.

I want to discourage voting blindingly by party affiliation. Personally I think you should at least know the general ideas and policies of the candidate(s) you're choosing, even though given the current political state the US it's foolish to vote for one of the parties, but even besides that how hard is it to remember their name so you can check if they actually follow through with anything? I'm not expecting perfection, but for example I know my senators names so whenever there's a big vote I can at least scan the list of supporters and see if I should be pissed at them or not. That lets me have at least a general vibe towards them come primaries and election season and whether I vote for their re-election.

> In a primary there may be a bit of research needed, but even then you get a sample ballot beforehand so you can research the alternatives,

Technically out of scope from OP's original point, but there's also a variety of local elections that can have multiple candidates per party. But either way, that "bit of research" with a sample ballot is all I'm really asking for out of people. These days they're tons of great voters guides out there too that include short Q&A's with each candidate for each hot topic issue, policy standpoints, etc. Because so many people just vote by party affiliation arguably the primaries and local elections are the most impactful votes you can do.

gopher_space 2 days ago | parent [-]

> I want to discourage voting blindingly by party affiliation

This seemed wise thirty years ago. I'm in a blue state that never had much of a problem electing republican officials up to and including the governor, and that worked well for us because every politician clearly and obviously put the state ahead of their party.

> given the current political state the US it's foolish to vote for one of the parties

It worked well for us until now. Today your call for ignoring party affiliation asks us to also ignore insurrection and child rape. That's asking too much, and I'm surprised you had the gametes to even float the idea.

stryan 2 days ago | parent [-]

>> given the current political state the US it's foolish to vote for one of the parties

> It worked well for us until now. Today your call for ignoring party affiliation asks us to also ignore insurrection and child rape. That's asking too much, and I'm surprised you had the gametes to even float the idea.

You know, I really debated on including that line because I suspected someone would misinterpret it, but I figured it would be a sorta of subtle reference to show I wasn't trying to "both sides are equally bad" type of situation. I guess I was too subtle.

To put it clearly, the party it's foolish to vote for is the Republicans. I thought that was obvious given that broad state of things. However, I also think that people don't pay attention to the primaries or local elections just Vote Blue No Matter Who on election day, then get surprised we've end up with a bunch of milquetoast centralist Democrats instead of people willing to make changes like Mamdani or El-Sayed.

miyoji 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

strken 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

This particular test might be reasonable, but at some point you're just filtering out anyone who's not in your bubble, which is a problem when your beliefs are extreme because your bubble is tiny.

Imagine a Marxist who refuses to discuss economics with anyone who can't explain dialectic materialism or enclosure.

j16sdiz 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

IMO. It is ok to filter them out.

One simply does not have infinite time and resource to engage with everybody.

Aware what you have filtered and don't treat them like idiot

strken 6 hours ago | parent [-]

Well, the contention of TFA is that you will turn ideologically crazy if you have an extreme belief and only speak to average people who disagree with you.

Turning ideologically crazy sounds like something that would also happen if you only talk to people who have the same extreme beliefs.

somenameforme 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Even in his particular test, he's filtering out people who are quite well informed on political topics but also feel that the input of the average person has effectively 0 impact. And this is quite a huge blindspot because political understanding/knowledge tends to precisely trend towards that worldview for many. A sack of money goes much further than a phone or picket.

hackernud3s 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We all learned what the 3 branches are in grade school. Some people forgot it. Liberals are more likely to remember it because liberal discourse (this thread for example) reminds them of it. It's a biased litmus test in other words.

bot403 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

It's inconceivable to me that you could forget the three branches. There are still headlines and news articles about the president , congress, and the supreme court. Those three things , talked about constantly, are a basic reminder of the most visible aspects of each branch.

hackernud3s 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

That's because your experience is siloed. People in other silos are seeing other headlines and other news articles, and wondering how you could not see them.

marky1991 2 days ago | parent [-]

That makes me, a conservative, wonder what those other headlines are talking about and if those headlines are worthwhile or helpful. Because, regardless of what you are reading, the fundamentals of government are unchanged. So if people aren't reading about them, that to me just suggests they're ignorant.

hackernud3s 2 days ago | parent [-]

The question is, is that a reason to not engage with them, or is it a reason to engage with them? The author seems to suggest we only engage with people in our silos which seems.. incestuous?

marjancek a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Yet a lot of people forgot about the most important thing about them: that they must be independent.

Lord-Jobo a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah, biased in favor of people who can think critically. All litmus tests are biased, they are designed to kick out a group of people, pointing out that bias is strange.

Just because liberals tend to end up in the in-group doesn’t mean the test is bad. It means liberals are doing better (in this one specific regard, civics knowledge).

MomsAVoxell 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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illiac786 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>Generally, I try to pay attention to good arguments against my ideas, not good arguers.

I agree, but it’s so much harder, you have to evaluate every argument, you can’t outright filter out idiots. I admire you, but I can’t manage this, it’s exhausting.

3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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slopinthebag 3 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s probably not necessary to know what the administrative structure of your government is in order to hold an opinion on politics. It’s more important to understand things like the different ideas and ideologies, and what concrete evidence actually exists to support whatever legislation you’re interested in. And pretty much nobody has sufficient political knowledge to do this.

joenot443 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

About 70% of American adults can name all three branches of government.

That leaves about 81m Americans who cannot. I'm sure you were a very clever 8yo, many of the people here spent a lot of their childhood being told they were clever. That said, suggesting that the other 30% of the country less clever than 8yo you should be excluded from political discussions is somewhat illiberal in my mind. Perhaps the notion we're creeping toward is that people less educated don't deserve a political voice or to take part in political exchange, which is a tenet I wouldn't agree with.

[1] https://www.asc.upenn.edu/news-events/news/americans-knowled...

zahlman 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

> don't deserve a political voice

This is a false dichotomy. There's a huge gap between "permitted to choose between the presented options in a democracy" and "able to make a wide audience care about one's political opinions".

rcpt 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

That 8yo isn't allowed a voice. Why?

mindslight 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> his bar is beneath the ground

I agree. In general you're pointing out one failing of this post, but I think there are a whole host of things that are missing from it to be anywhere near a substantial guide.

Don't fall into the trap of "an idiot disagrees with me, so I must be right" is a great observation/rule! But it's like the first level of the reasoning game (if the game even has linear levels).

There is value in that, and trying to provide even more observations would likely make the post fall flatter when readers disagreed with at least some (and/or the author didn't do a good job on some in favor of his primary point).

But "If you can’t find those people in the real world, turn to the internet and find them there" is especially fraught, as this subjects you to much different memetic hazards that the article doesn't touch upon at all. Meaning if you seek out online discussion communities and find their more-reasoned arguments refreshing, you're right back at the entrances to rabbit holes of extremism [author's usage] that are emotionally attractive rather than rationally considered.

zahlman 2 days ago | parent [-]

> ... and find their more-reasoned arguments refreshing, you're right back at... emotionally attractive rather than rationally considered.

How do you figure?

mindslight 2 days ago | parent [-]

Just because someone can find or create lengthy logical rationalizations does not mean they're arriving at universal truths.

Gödel's first theorem says that a logical system can either be incomplete or contradictory. The comprehensiveness of natural language (our primary tool for communicating), especially with the prevailing over-reliance on Boolean logic, points to the results from our use of them being readily contradictory.

So with Internet forums (especially when you're first exposed to them), you switch from getting half-baked reasoning in meatspace interactions (the focus of this article, and easy to spot!) to long chains of fully-baked reasoning that are logically consistent. But yet they ultimately still lead to some pretty terrible places - due to what they've left out of their starting assumptions, and then tacitly reject by closed-world-optimizing for the assumptions they did make.

cowboylowrez 17 hours ago | parent [-]

The contradictions probably should generate political compromises. I mean it would be sort of ridiculous to say "Godel, so lets be a failed state!" I would also not buy blaming the ridiculousness of the USA's state of affairs on Godel either, as I don't see any attempt from the powers in charge to lean toward "fully-baked reasoning", in fact they are whackadoodles from the best I can tell lol

Some folks talk like the lowest of the lowlife trolling forum goers are even remotely approaching logically consistent philosophical systems that eventually run into eventual and inevitable paradoxes, and I don't buy it. Heck, we should be that lucky to have forums like that instead of rabid identity wars.

Have you ever chatted with a libertarian for instance? In english? Half your terms need to receive new definitions lol

burnt-resistor 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There are zillions upon zillions of domain specific smart people with many totally batshit beliefs (pick a billionaire, any billionaire except Buffett). There are also plenty of approaching polymaths also with wackadoodle beliefs on particular subjects too. I'd say that well-rounded reasonableness and "common sense" in more areas than most is rare and skews towards wide-ranging life experiences, average intelligence, and advanced age. There are only a few wise elders who have figured out many things, not everything.

And no one will ever agree with you on everything. Anyone who agrees with you on everything is lying to you a priori or you're hallucinating them.

joenot443 2 days ago | parent [-]

MacKenzie Scott? Jensen Huang? Bernard Arnault? The Walton siblings?

Even ol' BG - he may be a billionaire but I think he's in general a very reasonable, liberal, secular, and fairly moderate guy. I guess he believed Windows Metro was a good idea... :)

Obviously we hear the stories about Musk, Zuck, Ellison etc. but I think there are plenty of grounded billionaires out there.

narrator 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

blks 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

My guy, I think you got hooked by a grifter’s sales funnel.

benj111 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Interestingly, he has a lot of people on what he calls the "Woke Right" (e.g Tucker Carlson) who also hate him.

Is that interesting? I get accused of being a labour supporter in conservative areas and conservative in more left leaning areas.

It's all part of the problem being discussed. If you don't precisely agree with someone, you must be one of 'them', and when you're in the middle, or have nuanced views, both extremes disagree with you.

Gormo 2 days ago | parent [-]

I have a speculative theory that core of the "woke right" did not originate from pre-existing conservative politics, but in fact emerged from segments of the political left finding themselves marginalized by the mainstream left-wing's increasing focus on identity politics over the past 10-15 years.

Many people departing left-wing communities for this reason began to reframe their political identities in opposition to the mainstream left, but did so by associating themselves with the left's own caricature of the right, rather than adopting the principles that informed the baseline worldview of the poltical right. The result was an influx of people with various collectivist, economically interventionist viewpoints into right-leaning institutions and communities.

Carlson, of course, isn't representative of this: I think he's just an opportunist who will play to whatever audience is in front of him, but I think the "woke right" notion of people reacting to the left while still adhering to its fundamental assumptions about the world is very evident. I think this explains why we're seeing policy positions that increasingly resemble socialist ones being advanced by "conservative" politicians.

benj111 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Have you any examples?

I'm kind of in the same boat as I don't agree with the identity politics, but I still count myself as left of centre.

Gormo 2 days ago | parent [-]

> Have you any examples?

Much of the "alt-right" narrative seems to revolve around embracing identity politics but siding with the outgroup in the left's version of the group-conflict story. The traditional right rejects that entire narrative. My perspective is that someone rooting for Darth Vader is still a Star Wars fan.

Another example is the economic thinking that has become pervasive in MAGA circles. Zero-sum thinking, arguments that sound like the LTV in all but name, support for tariffs, and a belief in centralized state intervention to perceived economic problems: "industrial policy" is bureacratic socialism in all but name.

> but I still count myself as left of centre

Meanwhile, lots of people who see themselves this way are now embracing an "abundance agenda" that sounds a whole lot like a reframing of traditional conservative and libertarian economic arguments.

It's as though the whole political spectrum has been tossed into a food processor, and everything's mixed and matched every which way.

zahlman 2 days ago | parent [-]

> an "abundance agenda" that sounds a whole lot like a reframing of traditional conservative and libertarian economic arguments.

I'm going to need you to be a lot more concrete about this.

Gormo 2 hours ago | parent [-]

"Abundance agenda" arguments are market-oriented and focus on reducing political obstacles to economic development, rather than seeing the political state as the driving force behind economic development.

zahlman 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> segments of the political left finding themselves marginalized by the mainstream left-wing's increasing focus on identity politics over the past 10-15 years.

I can confirm a group like this exists (that describes me) but I can't even remotely make sense of a "woke right" label for it. I don't even consider myself "on the right" at all; I consider that the identity of leftism has been taken from me. Which is fine insofar as I never cared much about identity in the first place; but infuriating in that all of society is seemingly buying into an entirely false narrative of leftism.

> but did so by associating themselves with the left's own caricature of the right

Only for satirical purposes, really. And there are more points of conflict than identity politics or collectivism and economic interventionism (I assume this can reasonably be rounded off to "support for the welfare state"). In particular, climate and energy policy.

> why we're seeing policy positions that increasingly resemble socialist ones being advanced by "conservative" politicians.

It's more that people insist on putting that label on anyone who doesn't play ball with leftist identity politics. Some accept it; I absolutely do not.

thrance 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

zahlman 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

Dumping quotes from a Wikipedia article, in the post-OWS era, is not at all a reasonable way to assess the political position of an individual. In practice, WP:BLP is just a mask.

I would engage with the specific misrepresentations made here, but that is clearly outside of expected HN discourse. If you care enough, feel free to email me. I use this username, on the Proton email service (the short version of the domain).

thrance 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

It's not hard to confirm the stuff I quoted from Wikipedia. The guy has multiple episodes of his podcast dedicated to promoting the idea of "Cultural Marxism": a ludicrous conspiracy theory.

So, in the context of finding someone both willing and knowledgeable enough to "debunk" Marxism, I think we can find better than a guy clueless enough to fall for such theories. Note that this says nothing of Lindsay's other views, and I couldn't care less for them.

Thanks for the offer, nevertheless.

zahlman a day ago | parent [-]

> the idea of "Cultural Marxism": a ludicrous conspiracy theory.

It is nothing of the sort; no conspiracy is alleged. That notion is an invention of Wikipedia's. It would make at least as much sense to describe any arbitrary religious doctrine that way.

Wikipedia's description of "groomer" as "an anti-LGBTQ slur" is also a political fabrication.

thrance 14 hours ago | parent [-]

Cultural Marxism is absolutely a conspiracy theory, it requires some cabal of academics that are trying to destroy the West with progressive values. If you believe there's any truth to it, I would urge you to read on the subject from non-MAGA sources.

And no, none of this was "invented" by Wikipedia.

> Wikipedia's description of "groomer" as "an anti-LGBTQ slur" is also a political fabrication.

The word "groomer" was absolutely used to imply that all LGBT people actually are pedophiles. That doesn't mean it's its only meaning. I've seen many high-profile Republican politicians and commentators use it in that way, it's not hard to find their speeches and interviews online. And that's rich, coming from the party that harbors pedophiles so openly, that went into so much trouble to make sure no Epstein conspirator faced any justice, while offering no protection to the victims (see Pam Bondy's testimony on the subject).

zahlman 9 hours ago | parent [-]

For someone who wasn't interested in the discussion, you sure do seem insistent on these points that I still completely disagree with, based on my own direct observations.

2 days ago | parent | prev [-]
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narrator 3 days ago | parent | prev [-]

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nixon_why69 2 days ago | parent | next [-]

This is a great comment on a post about people going ideologically crazy.

9 hours ago | parent [-]
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blks 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The notion “he read all the leftists books” is so childish.

zahlman 9 hours ago | parent [-]

How so?

adduced 2 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Lindsay does not adhere to basic honest critical inquiry. Marxism deserves much better critics! As a sample this text by Matt McManus shows some of the deep problems with one Lindsay's books https://archive.is/psCEw

narrator 2 days ago | parent [-]

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