| ▲ | narrator 3 days ago |
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| ▲ | blks 2 days ago | parent | next [-] |
| My guy, I think you got hooked by a grifter’s sales funnel. |
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| ▲ | benj111 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Interestingly, he has a lot of people on what he calls the "Woke Right" (e.g Tucker Carlson) who also hate him. Is that interesting? I get accused of being a labour supporter in conservative areas and conservative in more left leaning areas. It's all part of the problem being discussed. If you don't precisely agree with someone, you must be one of 'them', and when you're in the middle, or have nuanced views, both extremes disagree with you. |
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| ▲ | Gormo 2 days ago | parent [-] | | I have a speculative theory that core of the "woke right" did not originate from pre-existing conservative politics, but in fact emerged from segments of the political left finding themselves marginalized by the mainstream left-wing's increasing focus on identity politics over the past 10-15 years. Many people departing left-wing communities for this reason began to reframe their political identities in opposition to the mainstream left, but did so by associating themselves with the left's own caricature of the right, rather than adopting the principles that informed the baseline worldview of the poltical right. The result was an influx of people with various collectivist, economically interventionist viewpoints into right-leaning institutions and communities. Carlson, of course, isn't representative of this: I think he's just an opportunist who will play to whatever audience is in front of him, but I think the "woke right" notion of people reacting to the left while still adhering to its fundamental assumptions about the world is very evident. I think this explains why we're seeing policy positions that increasingly resemble socialist ones being advanced by "conservative" politicians. | | |
| ▲ | benj111 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Have you any examples? I'm kind of in the same boat as I don't agree with the identity politics, but I still count myself as left of centre. | | |
| ▲ | Gormo 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > Have you any examples? Much of the "alt-right" narrative seems to revolve around embracing identity politics but siding with the outgroup in the left's version of the group-conflict story. The traditional right rejects that entire narrative. My perspective is that someone rooting for Darth Vader is still a Star Wars fan. Another example is the economic thinking that has become pervasive in MAGA circles. Zero-sum thinking, arguments that sound like the LTV in all but name, support for tariffs, and a belief in centralized state intervention to perceived economic problems: "industrial policy" is bureacratic socialism in all but name. > but I still count myself as left of centre Meanwhile, lots of people who see themselves this way are now embracing an "abundance agenda" that sounds a whole lot like a reframing of traditional conservative and libertarian economic arguments. It's as though the whole political spectrum has been tossed into a food processor, and everything's mixed and matched every which way. | | |
| ▲ | zahlman 2 days ago | parent [-] | | > an "abundance agenda" that sounds a whole lot like a reframing of traditional conservative and libertarian economic arguments. I'm going to need you to be a lot more concrete about this. | | |
| ▲ | Gormo 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | "Abundance agenda" arguments are market-oriented and focus on reducing political obstacles to economic development, rather than seeing the political state as the driving force behind economic development. |
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| ▲ | zahlman 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > segments of the political left finding themselves marginalized by the mainstream left-wing's increasing focus on identity politics over the past 10-15 years. I can confirm a group like this exists (that describes me) but I can't even remotely make sense of a "woke right" label for it. I don't even consider myself "on the right" at all; I consider that the identity of leftism has been taken from me. Which is fine insofar as I never cared much about identity in the first place; but infuriating in that all of society is seemingly buying into an entirely false narrative of leftism. > but did so by associating themselves with the left's own caricature of the right Only for satirical purposes, really. And there are more points of conflict than identity politics or collectivism and economic interventionism (I assume this can reasonably be rounded off to "support for the welfare state"). In particular, climate and energy policy. > why we're seeing policy positions that increasingly resemble socialist ones being advanced by "conservative" politicians. It's more that people insist on putting that label on anyone who doesn't play ball with leftist identity politics. Some accept it; I absolutely do not. |
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| ▲ | thrance 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
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| ▲ | zahlman 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Dumping quotes from a Wikipedia article, in the post-OWS era, is not at all a reasonable way to assess the political position of an individual. In practice, WP:BLP is just a mask. I would engage with the specific misrepresentations made here, but that is clearly outside of expected HN discourse. If you care enough, feel free to email me. I use this username, on the Proton email service (the short version of the domain). | | |
| ▲ | thrance 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | It's not hard to confirm the stuff I quoted from Wikipedia. The guy has multiple episodes of his podcast dedicated to promoting the idea of "Cultural Marxism": a ludicrous conspiracy theory. So, in the context of finding someone both willing and knowledgeable enough to "debunk" Marxism, I think we can find better than a guy clueless enough to fall for such theories. Note that this says nothing of Lindsay's other views, and I couldn't care less for them. Thanks for the offer, nevertheless. | | |
| ▲ | zahlman a day ago | parent [-] | | > the idea of "Cultural Marxism": a ludicrous conspiracy theory. It is nothing of the sort; no conspiracy is alleged. That notion is an invention of Wikipedia's. It would make at least as much sense to describe any arbitrary religious doctrine that way. Wikipedia's description of "groomer" as "an anti-LGBTQ slur" is also a political fabrication. | | |
| ▲ | thrance 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | Cultural Marxism is absolutely a conspiracy theory, it requires some cabal of academics that are trying to destroy the West with progressive values. If you believe there's any truth to it, I would urge you to read on the subject from non-MAGA sources. And no, none of this was "invented" by Wikipedia. > Wikipedia's description of "groomer" as "an anti-LGBTQ slur" is also a political fabrication. The word "groomer" was absolutely used to imply that all LGBT people actually are pedophiles. That doesn't mean it's its only meaning. I've seen many high-profile Republican politicians and commentators use it in that way, it's not hard to find their speeches and interviews online. And that's rich, coming from the party that harbors pedophiles so openly, that went into so much trouble to make sure no Epstein conspirator faced any justice, while offering no protection to the victims (see Pam Bondy's testimony on the subject). | | |
| ▲ | zahlman 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | For someone who wasn't interested in the discussion, you sure do seem insistent on these points that I still completely disagree with, based on my own direct observations. |
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| ▲ | 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | narrator 3 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | nixon_why69 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | This is a great comment on a post about people going ideologically crazy. | | | |
| ▲ | blks 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The notion “he read all the leftists books” is so childish. | | | |
| ▲ | adduced 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Lindsay does not adhere to basic honest critical inquiry. Marxism deserves much better critics!
As a sample this text by Matt McManus shows some of the deep problems with one Lindsay's books https://archive.is/psCEw | | |
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