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nekusar 5 hours ago

And Graphene OS is also anti-user by being tremendously rude about NOT providing root and using the same tired "suck-u-rity" crap Google and Apple also use.

If you're smart enough to buy a phone that supports GrapheneOS, AND install it, yeah you should have root.

And tools like XPrivacy and plugins allow control of subsystems like GPS spoofing and lying to apps.

subscribed 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

It's pretty trivial to get your own almost-GOS with root. The official GOS release simply doesn't support it in the production images.

Why not root has been explained many times and you actually either want the official image with no root exactly because of the benefits, or you want custom image because you don't need these benefits.

For location faking Mock location works on GOS,l.

I see much bigger problem with not having a reliable backup than not having root.

impure-aqua 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Software freedom is about freedom of choice, not philosophically mandated security holes. You are free to take the GrapheneOS code and introduce a huge vulnerability in the form of a privilege escalation path from sandboxed apps if you wish, it is open source and you can easily compile and flash your own build.

Mobile phones store incredibly intimate data and are incredibly vulnerable to seizure. It stores my message history, pictures I've taken, so many other records that together would provide an incredibly detailed view into my private life. And it is on my person at all times, even through checkpoints where I have minimal protections against search and seizure like borders! This is not a device that I want a broad surface for modification of system software on.

krackers an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Why is providing a mechanism to view your own data a security risk? You cannot view application data (even in a read only fashion) without root on android. Why should the app be able to read its own data, but the human not able to?

nekusar an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

> not philosophically mandated security holes.

So you're arguing the same technofascist arguments that Apple and Google both claim. I own my phone, not technofascist sky daddy, or whatever developer also envisions that role.

My hardware. My rules. More people like you need to learn what ownership actually bloody means.

justonenote 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you are technical and want root its very easy to patch a build of GrapheneOS to include whatever mechanism you want. You can even automate this to continue to receive updates.

I think the decision of GrapheneOS to maintain the attestation features and not providing user root is what gives it a fighting chance of being accepted as legitimate 3rd choice. See: Revolut and others adding GrapheneOS keys and trusting their attestation

Like or not, for most users, having root access is a liability, especially with more and more important things being held on phones . Someone downloading a photo editing app and then having a rootkit installed in the background that waits to empty their bank account is not a workable situation.

yjftsjthsd-h 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Someone downloading a photo editing app and then having a rootkit installed in the background that waits to empty their bank account is not a workable situation.

Yes, that would be absurd. Thankfully, that isn't how root access has worked in a very very long time if ever. If photo editing app requests root access... you click deny and uninstall it.

actionfromafar 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Some percentage will click Allow.

yjftsjthsd-h 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes, that's Google's excuse for banning side loading. It's a terrible reason.

spogbiper an hour ago | parent [-]

They aren't banning it. They are introducing a one time 24 hour waiting period. Not ideal, but not banning.

armadyl 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Because so-called “trusted” apps that you do give root to have no chance of getting compromised, right?

yjftsjthsd-h 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Pretty low, honestly, but being careful about that is why I tend to make it ask every single time.

gruez 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>If you are technical and want root its very easy to patch a build of GrapheneOS to include whatever mechanism you want. You can even automate this to continue to receive updates.

You don't even need to patch it, AFAIK. You can just install magisk, which is how you're supposed to get root on LineageOS as well.

ysnp an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Just to note Revolut are quite famously anti-security and GrapheneOS have had to work around attempts to ban it on a few occasions. You may have meant the swiss finance app Yuh or something else.

Cider9986 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

GrapheneOS's goals are privacy which must start from a secure baseline. If you want to make it less secure yourself, you can, but it's not the goal of the project.

It's not anti-user if it doesn't add the features you want that would destroy the security of the OS.

It has many features that give the user more control. Like disabling emergency alerts, protecting your data from attackers, contact and storage scopes (lying to apps for more privacy while retaining functionality), sensors permission, network permission.