| ▲ | inigyou 6 hours ago |
| It's a regulated market economy. Someone has to actually make the product. They can't force someone to make a product. There's MNT in the EU. |
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| ▲ | mosura 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Do what the Chinese did and fork Android. The EU has enough tech talent to do it, but the political and managerial class lack both the strategic ability or the willingness to adequately reward the effort it would take, almost certainly preferring to, again, outsource the concern, and then be shocked Pikachu later. Anyone doubting this should see how BMW think about their in car software. And that is for a supposedly premium product. |
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| ▲ | inigyou 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | There's GrapheneOS. It's Canadian, not European. I'm not sure where LineageOS is from. BMW isn't the EU government. Like I said, someone has to actually do it. BMW Actually Did It in a really user hostile way, and that's the best we have. Why is nobody Actually Doing It but good? Or why aren't we buying MNT products? | | |
| ▲ | mosura 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | BMW behaviour is perfectly representative of the EU mentality. As is your comment. It is basically “someone else should do this properly and I will take the benefits” but not actually willing to put up the hard bit themselves. | | |
| ▲ | inigyou 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm talking about the government of the EU. You seem to be talking about all the countries and the people in the countries. | | |
| ▲ | mosura 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | You need to parse the word mentality in context. The root problem here is the EU is culturally broken, and until some grand disaster will simply decline ever further with everyone involved wondering why no one else is doing anything about it. | | |
| ▲ | inigyou 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Why don't we export some better culture to Europe then? That would be a good place and now would be a good time for Americans to flee to. | | |
| ▲ | throw-the-towel 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Take up the White Man's burden—
Send forth the best ye breed—
Go bind your sons to exile
To serve your captives' need;
To wait in heavy harness
On fluttered folk and wild—
Your new-caught sullen peoples,
Half devil and half child.
</sarcasm> | |
| ▲ | mosura 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You couldn’t epitomize the problem more if you tried. |
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| ▲ | ptero 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If the govvies (any govvies; there is nothing specific to EU here) drive that process of forking a large, powerful, universally used system you will end up with more surveillance, not less. Because kids, because pornography, because terrorism, whatever. This is too powerful an option for control freaks to resist. | | |
| ▲ | mosura 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | And this is why everyone gives up on doing anything while standing around complaining that no one does the right thing. What is so pernicious about the EU approach is the enthusiasm and efficiency with which it stops anyone from doing anything, while simultaneously attempting to regulate what everyone else in the world can do. If they put even a small part of that energy into encouraging the right thing to happen they would be in such a better place it is insane. | | |
| ▲ | inigyou 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Not really. They weren't saying if it existed in the EU it'd have to surveil. They were saying if the EU government created it it'd have to surveil. | | |
| ▲ | mosura 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Honestly your reading comprehension is not good today. They said if the government “drive the process of forking” which could mean encourage a group of academics to do it, or a commercial consortium. It does not mean the EU government take on the task themselves. * It is self evident from actual EU behaviour that any mobile os that gets to users will be legally required to be a surveillance disaster area, regardless of origin, and the only people that have prevented this already are evil US corporations. * edit to add, the EU did encourage many technical efforts vital to the mobile phone industry at different times with a mix of funding, political support etc. The Arm people would tell you AMBA (a standard relating to SoC component integration) wouldn’t exist without this, and yet no one would classify this as “a creation of the EU” but very much enabled by them. For whatever reason since about 2005 their strategic ability in this area has not merely disappeared but become actively wrong. | | |
| ▲ | inigyou an hour ago | parent [-] | | If the EU government told a group of academics "hey, go make a phone" it wouldn't have mass surveillance. If it insisted on being closely involved in the process, then it would. |
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| ▲ | inigyou 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'm not 100% sure about surveillance but you will definitely end up with the most milquetoast risk-averse bland corporate system ever, complete with 6 months of paperwork and KYC to get a certificate to sign any executable with your real name, so it will be allowed to run. |
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| ▲ | p0w3n3d 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| They can make the product according to rules that are imposed on them. One rule: allow privacy. Unless the privacy is not in the field of interest of both the producer and the EU |
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| ▲ | inigyou 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes, you could make the product. But you're not. And neither is anyone else. And there's nothing the EU government can directly do about that. | |
| ▲ | vovavili 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Then why are you not making it? |
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| ▲ | drdexebtjl 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| They can’t force someone to make a product, but they can force someone to choose between making a product or exiting the EU market. In practice they’re the same thing. |
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| ▲ | cmeacham98 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| While the EU and its member countries can't (or at least morally shouldn't) force people to make the product, if it was a priority they could incentivise it with funding, tax breaks, etc. |
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| ▲ | inigyou 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | NLnet funds a lot of things, few of which get very popular. It keeps a lot of FOSS gears turning but it's not making the next iPhone. |
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| ▲ | toymin 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| They could give more funding to SailfishOS, for example |
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| ▲ | inigyou 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Sailfish would have to ask for it. Possibly via NLnet. Have they? And they need a plan to spend it. |
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