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wnevets a day ago

> The CDC Has a Cyclospora Lab. DOGE Downsized It Last Year [1]

[1] https://www.wired.com/story/cdc-cyclospora-lab-doge-downsize...

dgellow a day ago | parent | next [-]

DOGE will be seen by historians as the cause of so many crisis…

RunSet a day ago | parent | next [-]

It is the government equivalent of El Muskito buying Twitter and then wantonly disabling components with the assumption they do nothing.

davidw a day ago | parent [-]

Except no one died because Twitter malfunctions here and there.

dzhiurgis a day ago | parent [-]

TBF the companies that failed to contain the disease are at fault, not the agency.

You can't reasonably expect government to protect everyone from everything.

ssl-3 a day ago | parent | next [-]

How would we know which companies to blame without organizations like the CDC?

What would they even be blamed for in the first place if there were no regulatory expectations for them to adhere to?

lymbo 12 hours ago | parent [-]

Exactly, and profit is too great a drug for 99% of companies. Consumers just aren’t going to be willing or able to collectively buy up research and regulatory bodies themselves or we would already have a replacement.

SR2Z 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You can reasonably expect the government to measure the scale and scope of an outbreak after it's occurred and force companies to appropriately recall any damaged produce. You know, what they've been doing for decades before Musk gutted them.

I don't know what to tell you, man. It's not normal for thousands of people to be sickened by foodborne illness AFTER the government knows where it's from.

Gud 20 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Only in some libertarian fever dream.

Functional societies has central functions to ensure that safety of its people.

sixothree a day ago | parent | prev [-]

To be fair to whom exactly? The organization tasked with disease protection and which claims they exist for "saving lives"?

shimman a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You don't need historians to see the crisis as it was happening and as it's ongoing, the only question we need to ask is how long should the people held accountable be in prison for?

For abusing democratic offices the penalty should be at least one decade in keeping up with ancient Athenian democratic traditions.

dgellow a day ago | parent [-]

Well, I said historians because I don’t think that will happen anytime soon. The US is almost completely captured. The time to send people to prison was during the previous administration. I still cannot believe that Americans re-elected a literal failed insurrectionist

bamboozled a day ago | parent [-]

I agree, if people voted for this I wouldn’t expect any ramifications at all. People have to be so far gone to have actually wanted this that they’re not just going to change their mind.

bamboozled a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Imagine how frustrated the laid off staff must be, especially if they end up either the illness themselves.

cyanydeez a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

optimistic, this requires the arc of history to bend towards non-fascism.

ryandvm a day ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah, as Norm Macdonald put it:

> “It says here in this history book that luckily, the good guys have won every single time. What are the odds?”

epistasis a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well, there will at least be historians in other countries covering the downfall in detail, if there is indeed a bigger downfall than has already happened.

Democracies are pretty good at studying the failures of other countries and learning about them.

lostlogin a day ago | parent [-]

‘and learning about them’

I’m not at all convinced about this part.

EdwardDiego a day ago | parent [-]

To be fair, they said learning _about_ them, not learning _from_ them.

ElProlactin a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Optimistic, this requires a civilization to have a history.

gruez a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>the arc of history to bend towards non-fascism.

From wikipedia: "Fascism [...] rose to prominence primarily in Europe of the interwar period"

So what were humans doing for all the thousands of years after the advent of recorded history but before that?

CookieCrisp a day ago | parent [-]

Fascism with a different name

solid_fuel a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Fascism always collapses, the question is only how much will remain by the time that occurs.

z3c0 a day ago | parent | next [-]

And whether or not what replaces it is any better. Historically speaking, widespread democracy is still a recent development.

solid_fuel a day ago | parent [-]

That's always an open question. Fascism does frequently collapse into other authoritarian regimes, too. But fascism itself will always fail.

It is a movement motivated by the petty grievances of cowards and fools, and the same hate and violence they project outward always turns inward at the end.

cindyllm a day ago | parent [-]

[dead]

criddell a day ago | parent | prev [-]

What definition of fascism are you using? Is China fascist?

solid_fuel a day ago | parent | next [-]

> What definition of fascism are you using?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

> Is China fascist?

What a strange and completely irrelevant question.

ndsipa_pomu 15 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

China is also fascist by the usual four measures (cult-like worship, hyper-nationalism, a merciless surveillance apparatus and the glorification of military strength), but that has nothing to do with fascism in the USA.

criddell 14 hours ago | parent [-]

I was more interested in the claim that fascism always collapses because China feels like a durable counter-example. But if you don't classify China as fascist, it is irrelevant.

dgellow a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Fair. Though based on previous experiments fascist regimes aren’t that stable and competent, they have a tendency to self-destruct once they are in power. It’s a sad state of affairs that is considered optimistic

thrance a day ago | parent | prev [-]

DOGE is simply a tool of global capital, and shouldn't be singled out as the root cause of anything. Its purpose was to cut money from being redistributed through government programs, so it could go to the financial markets instead via tax cuts for the wealthiests and inefficient defense contracts. It achieved its goal wonderfully.

smegger001 a day ago | parent [-]

More than that it was an enabling tool.

Republicans for decades have claimed that the government cant do anythingright/good and that we must deregulate and let the free market do everything.

Problem is the government is actually pretty good at doing somethings, so Republicans break things until they can use them as examples of government inefficiency then privatize it for there own profit.

Doge was made to break the government so Republicans could point at what was left and say "see government is broken"

But Musk ran it and he's and idiot that had no idea what he doing so istead of it slowly all going to shit so no one would remember it all working as intended it started to fall apart to soon. So we still have people that will point to the real cause.

pbnjeh 12 hours ago | parent [-]

In explanations I believe, over the decades government programs have been difficult to deal with in good part because Republicans and their like (sorry if this seems political, but they’re the ones doing it) while they can’t stop all the legislation, they have enough influence even then to make the administration structure and requirements deliberately horrible and underfunded.

One of the first big bullets they put into the Affordable Care Act after it became effective, was to zero out funding of its provisions that were/are mandated by law.

The “government can’t do shit” people should spend some time looking at the reasons why. Government isn’t perfect — it’s made up of the same humans that compose the rest of society — but it often isn’t half bad, and many people going into it have good-hearted and honorable intentions. Some turn bitter or disengaged at the experience — as designed — but many fight such negativity to the bitter end.

Oh, and regarding the ACA, many don’t know or have forgotten that businesses were clamoring for it or some/any solution, facing 25% year over year premium increases for their insured employees. And the ACA has and continues to provide many substantial improvements and benefits to group policy insurance holders that have no ready optics and hype like the healthcare marketplace.

Have insurance through your employer and think the ACA does nothing for you? You’re wrong.

So, thanks, gub’mint!

Maxion a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well, shit in peace i guess.

ebbi a day ago | parent [-]

Well it's definitely not in piece/s I guess

a3mrouter1 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

[flagged]

BoingBoomTschak a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

From 11 to 3 employees. Doesn't seem that outrageous outside of such a time of crisis (since this lab seem dedicated solely to outbreaks, not research), which is when the parent entity should temporarily allocate more people.

wnevets a day ago | parent | next [-]

> From 11 to 3 employees. Doesn't seem that outrageous outside

I hope I never have you as my manager If you think a ~70% reduction in head count isn't outrageous.

BoingBoomTschak a day ago | parent [-]

I've worked along scientists a few times, many twiddling their thumbs and coasting along on the back of their PhD. No idea if this applies here, mind you, but I don't see an innate need for that many people, even if this disease has major outbreaks (let's say > 50 cases) every few years.

3 does seem a bit low, though.

flatline a day ago | parent | next [-]

Impressive judgment from someone who presumably has no knowledge of the types of problems the lab was addressing, the scope of research, the actual individuals employed, or the prior and anticipated impact of their work. This was the whole problem with DOGE: cuts were indiscriminate and based more on feels than factual data. I won't posit that those cuts were all downside - but we will be paying to discover which were really needed for years to come.

pavel_lishin a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> many twiddling their thumbs

Do you think some of them were wasting their time, by posting on various online forums only slightly related to their jobs?

cuvert 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We should also extend that to firefighters, they do nothing most of the time, anyway. Let the fires burn everything and after that let the insurance solve the problems for those who have it.

georgemcbay a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I've worked along scientists a few times

You should have mentioned this up front so we all knew you were fully qualified to understand the staffing needs of critical governmental health organizations.

a day ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
greycol a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We've discovered that ambulance drivers are only driving people to hospital for 5% of the week. As such we've cut the 20 staff that used to give 120% coverage to 5. The 4 days of coverage is still more than 8x more than needed to cover working 5% of the week, so obviously we don't expect any deaths on the days we don't have any ambulance drivers working.

In the unlikely event excess ambulance drivers are needed we'll temporarily hire them on an ad hoc basis at double the normal rate. They will obviously happily jump on this opportunity, working less than 5% of the year at double pay is much better for just those hours than being paid 60% of what you'd get as an ambulance driver in another career all year round and actually being able to afford your mortgage.

roughly a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The thing about crises is by the time you’re in them, they’re gonna cost way more to clean up than just not getting there in the first place.

Sounds like the lag time between going from 11 to 3 employees and having an outbreak was ~a year, so unless this is wrapped up fast enough and cheaply enough to cost less than 8 FTEs, we didn’t save a whole lot of money and we caused a whole lot of distress, so it’s hard to really call this a win.

NetMageSCW a day ago | parent [-]

That ignores that point that this department only activates after the outbreak has started, so if it was increased to 100 people it wouldn’t have prevented the crisis.

roughly a day ago | parent [-]

The article indicates that the department responds to crises, it did not indicate that was its only function.

felooboolooomba a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Astroturfing still paying good?

esalman a day ago | parent | prev [-]

While you're at it, give AI to the 3 employees and they will do the work of 30 /s

limagnolia a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Too bad that article doesn't have any evidence that the alleged cuts have had any impact on the cyclospora response.

tantalor a day ago | parent | next [-]

It's in the subheading:

> “Based on simple math, these outbreak responses—which require rapid, timely responses—are going to be greatly diminished,” the former CDC lab director tells WIRED.

limagnolia a day ago | parent [-]

Thats not evidence.

tantalor 14 hours ago | parent [-]

Is expert testimony not evidence?

afavour a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Surely the burden of proof here is proving that a 70% headcount reduction doesn’t make a difference.

rco8786 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Do you think that cutting funding to a lab would improve or hinder its ability to react to an outbreak like this one?

bix6 a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You think an agency with less people can more capably do its job? Come on now.

dzhiurgis a day ago | parent | next [-]

Whenever I work for large corporations or government I wanna blow my brain how slow things move. Literally days work in a month.

Yes, small teams can be more productive.

I've took a ~2x pay cut just not to sit in those unproductive meetings and grind instead.

limagnolia a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes! I have no idea if that is the case here, but absolutely yes.

collingreen 11 hours ago | parent [-]

Boy have I got a bridge to sell you!

frumper a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Just wait until 1 of those 3 employees left has surgery and needs FMLA, or out on maternity leave. Then it'll be even more capable. /s

bix6 a day ago | parent [-]

Maternity leave? Women aren’t allowed to work in the Hegseth era!

preg_match 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don’t believe you need evidence when simple reasoning will do. Less people = less likelihood of an appropriate and timely response.

mplewis a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

what would make you think that a downsized lab can do the same amount of work

solid_fuel a day ago | parent | next [-]

They’re not thinking. They like the cuts, and DOGE, and musk, and the feel of that boot coming down on the neck. So they’re making post hoc rationalizations for everything.

It’s certainly not motivated by principles or a concern for reality.

mysterydip a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Some people think that the only ones downsized were the “dead weight”, so therefore, with them and their bureaucracy out of the way, the remaining people will be faster and better able to do their real work. From what I’ve seen, this is not the case. If anything, the opposite may have happened.

antonymoose a day ago | parent | prev [-]

What would make you think this would have prevented the incident?

Balinares a day ago | parent | next [-]

Man shoots himself in the foot then turns up limping, it's probably not that his shoes are too tight.

antonymoose a day ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

jrflowers a day ago | parent [-]

> The alleged team involved had nothing to do with prevention - Go back to Reddit :)

“Alleged team” lol

You know what the team was doing but you’re not sure that it existed

paleotrope a day ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

antonymoose a day ago | parent | next [-]

No one has actually managed to show that this team that was involved actually had responsibilities that would have prevented this incident which is literally what I asked.

But go “dunk” on someone on the internet for political team clout, you’re definitely making the world a better place.

michaelmrose 21 hours ago | parent [-]

The only people in a position to show this are the idiots responsible for the current broken system. Deep analysis will have to come after regime change

site-packages1 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Hasn't happened before, suddenly happens now after the cuts. It's not too complicated. People are dying and people have died. The new administration must collect all available evidence and then submit to grand juries for prosecution.

nomel a day ago | parent [-]

This was a response team not a prevention team.

jknoepfler a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As engineers we know that you can't catch everything. You build resilient systems by learning from your failures and investing/iterating in better practices over time. If you want to find out how to sabotage your company really quickly, just throw a bunch of politically radicalized interns with stupid red hats at your testing, QA, dev/ops, security, customer success (+etc) procedures, slash budgets, randomly, delete test suites and see where you land. Then when things go wrong, make sure your defense is "well we don't know they would have caught anything anyway."

The cuts were actual. There's no sense in calling something that is a matter of open public record which has been widely reported on "alleged."

I understand MAGA types like to fall over themselves to evade responsibility for their actions, because they think truth is a shell game and reality has no meaningful consequences if you deny them loudly enough (see: deaths due to science denialism during the covid response and shilling of bro-science alternative medicine, upsurge in preventable illnesses like measles due to vaccine denialism, brain drain from the insane gutting of public research funding institutions and cynical re-alignment of said institutions around corporations that donated to the presidency, drastic consequences of global warming, consequences of 2A zealotry in the form of school and other mass shootings... and so on and so forth).

The hard reality is that we've been trying to get a handle on food safety for over a century. It is incredibly laborious, difficult work that requires knowledge of the many and various ways contaminants make it into the food supply, how food producers like Taylor Farms obfuscate or lie to avoid legal liability or costly regulation, and knowledge of the law and how to shape and administer it effectively. If you slash regulatory agencies that have emerged over decades to own and shepherd this work, you're going to have to own up to a lot of nasty shit over the next few decades.

In my state, water pollution was so bad in the 70s and 80s you couldn't swim in major lakes and streams. Now you can. We got there through sustained public investment in regulation and oversight. We need more of that, not less.

someguydave 13 hours ago | parent [-]

“MAGA types”

twister2920 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]