Does it already know the answer to what happen at Tiananmen Square? Or still avoiding it?

xbmcuser 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Who cares if it is programming correctly I would be more worried about it not doing things like find security bugs because US or Chinese government does not want to. Which LLM is more likely to do that?

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edot 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’s open weight, you can (or you can wait for someone else to) uncensor it. We shouldn’t be upset at the researchers making this for the mandates their government puts on them.

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nancyminusone 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How often are you asking an LLM about this? You know you can just google it, right?

I have to admit it rarely comes up in the coding tasks I usually give to LLMs.

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Boxxed 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Surely you realize he or she is not literally looking for the answer to that but rather pointing out the censorship.

	▲	nancyminusone 2 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Of course. But it's a bit like putting an image of the tank man on a circuit board if you order from china (which I have seen discussed, never found someone who actually did it). Most people don't do it, not because they are for or against censorship, but because they are just there to order circuit boards.

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avazhi 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Western models censor just as much shit as the Chinese models do, big guy, it’s just different material. While we should be pushing for universal fully uncensored models, this comment is lazy and trite at this point.

But you already know that.

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SJMG 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Oh? What are the American model censorship tells?

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zawaideh 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Genocide in Gaza...

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cogman10 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I find that ChatGPT isn't censoring, but it is being pretty weaselly. If you ask it "is there genocide in gaza". It will say no but also say that a lot of organizations classify it as such. It will then say "it's highly disputed".

If you poke it just a few times, however, you get to the point where it will eventually say (paraphrasing) that basically only Israel, the US state department, and the ICJ say it's not a genocide.

That is to say that it's framing it as some sort of tricky complex question when it's not. And when interrogated, it basically admits that the only people who dispute it are Israel and it's supporters.

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throw59525773 6 hours ago | parent [-]

One side of a conflict being a minority does not make it less nuanced.

The majority of the world is religious - doesn’t mean the debate on religion isn’t a complex question.

The majority of the world approved of slavery historically.

The majority of countries have ethnically cleansed their Jews, many of them in living memory.

When interrogated you will find that the only ones asserting the war in Gaza is a genocide are people who were anti-Israel anyway.

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cogman10 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Are you a part of the $1B Israel is spending to try and propagandize and rehabilitate their reputation? [1]

I'm always suspicious that's the case given how mentions of gaza seem to bring out brand new accounts who only talk about Israel.

[1] https://quincyinst.org/research/the-eighth-front-inside-isra...

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throw59525773 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Classic “foreign agent” ad hominem.

We are on a thread discussing Chinese models. Every discussion on here that’s negative about China or its models suddenly gets derailed via whataboutism to Israel/Gaza. A very convenient distraction.

	▲	cogman10 5 hours ago \| parent [-]
		My history, unlike yours, is wide open. People can see I'm not a foreign agent. I don't throw this accusation at anyone other than throwaway accounts. I've had conversations in the past with pro-Israel HNs that I'd never accuse of being a foreign agent because their history is wide open and this isn't the only topic on their mind. And yes, we were discussing censorship of models which, as I pointed out, doesn't seem like ChatGPT is directly censoring data though it does appear to be manipulating it. Pretty on topic. It was you, brand new account hiding your past opinions, who came in here to make this solely about Israel. Yeah, I think you are likely a foreign agent. Prove me wrong and post from an established account.

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tarasn 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

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shalom1112 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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vehemenz 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is a straightforward false equivalency. “Western” models do not censor in the same way, nor for the same reasons, that the Chinese models do. “Just as much” is not remotely plausible, yet it’s doing all the heavy lifting.

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adrian_b 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The Anthropic and OpenAI models are much more censored and in ways that directly prevent them to be useful, e.g. by refusing to reply to elementary questions of biology and chemistry.

Any normal user is much more likely to ask questions to which the Anthropic and OpenAI models do not answer, than to ask questions about the modern Chinese history, to which a Chinese LLM will not answer.

	▲	krull10 19 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		I actually cancelled my max plan for Claude today due to this silliness. I can’t get Fable to answer a single question, even pure mathematical questions that have no bio/chem references. It was a totally worthless addition to my account…
	▲	rescbr 5 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> questions about the modern Chinese history, to which a Chinese LLM will not answer This has been debunked here on HN so many times. The Chinese open models do answer the hairy Chinese political questions, and the raw APIs pass-through the response. Now, the answer might be blocked by the agent who's calling the API, specially if you are using a Chinese endpoint instead of the RoW (i.e. Singapore) endpoint. That's the reason why you should always prefer a open agent/harness as well instead of using the provider's.

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net01 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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DubzCheckEm 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

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hiherer 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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