A big concern around age verification is that some people will be locked out because they can't prove their age.

Your solution here has the same flaw, I think. If the algorithm thinks I'm underage, I'm locked out.

They do already like YouTube and ChatGPT, so they'll ask for your age only when they're unsure.

Because it's all about bringing in digital ID and gated internet. Not age.

They would prefer to know, not estimate, which is why they are pushing these initiatives basically on their own accord.

Also, if you've ever played with this kind of data, there is immense overlap between how some adults and some kids use the internet. Is this user legally a child, or just emotionally a child? Similar to the problem of "There is overlap between the smartest bears and dumbest tourists" in designing bear proof garbage cans.

If you want to use a service that is age restricted either by law or the company providing it how else would you do it? It's the same IRL. I don't like it as well and we certainly lived through the wild wild west times in the 90s and 00s but the more something gets economical important the more scrutiny it gets. Maybe we just need something new.

This is really nothing new and has always be the case It's not possible to tech yourself out of a political problem.

So if there is something being done we should choose a solution that has at least some accountability to the general public (through elected representatives).

The alternative is Google, Apple etc where almost anyone has exactly zero influence and the government can still block as they like.

Like the government doesn’t already have that power?

I'm already locked out by many of the private companies so...

As opposed to if google, Microsoft and apple operate the key server and a government can influence them?

This will be possible if done by third parties anyway, it will just be apple, google and maybe meta, a single phone call is enough to cut you off. At least if the government is doing it, the app doesn't get your id.

EU already does this with the eIDAS system and it works quite well.

>>Of all the 3rd parties who could be responsible for this, I trust the government the least.

Really? can you name any 3rd party you'd trust with this more than your own government?

Given that you know, the government already has all of this info on us. This isn't a choice between "the government doesn't know how old I am" and "the government has all the info on me". Governments usually already do. They have enough data already to issue such proof just by the virtue of us living in the country. Tax records, birth records, driving licences, council taxes, passport info, medical information - there's more than enough to give me a cryptographic certificate that says "yes, gambiting is definitely 18 years old" without me having to do anything. Compared to literally any third party that cannot do any of this, unless they buy my marketing cookies on the open market or something, or yes - I actually go out of my way to give them my passport/credit card/selfies etc.

This is how it's planned in the EU is it not?

> some pretty significant services

What services are those other than p*rn?

The difference here is that in a functioning democracy people have some control over their government. All the institutions are specifically built to be transparent and work for the public good, at least, in some sense of the word. A corporation, especially a monopoly doesn't care what you think, you have no control over it and the only thing that really matters to them is their bottom line. Are governments perfect? Of course not. Are random corpos better? Again, of course not.

Despite that fun trope, in reality democratic government reguarly delivers very well: Traffic safety systems work easily, dependably, economically. The Internet was developed by the government, the web at a government-funded research institution. NASA is the most cutting edge, most adventurous organization in the history of humanity. The US military created GPS for example, and has more globalized operations than any other organization has ever imagined, and from the bottom of the sea to GEO. Diseases are managed and contained, etc.

(Now if the people want to tear apart government, democracy delivers that too.)

How does this work if you use Linux or Graphene OS?

I’d personally prefer if nobody verified me ever, and people stopped asking for it altogether. It’s not a compromise, because nothing about this is pragmatic, necessary, or for any benefit of society—this is yet more creeping authoritarian control, and I’m absolutely floored how readily everyone else bends over for it. I say no. Fuck no. I will sabotage and obfuscate every aspect of this at every opportunity.

The people clutching pearls and screaming “what about the children” can deliver universal healthcare, child care, parental leave, and free education FIRST, and then I will extend a modicum of trust for their overriding “concerns”. Until then, I’m gonna treat this as the bad faith power grab that it very clearly is.

And the market won't solve it in a way without perverse incentive unless you have government regulations. Too much money on the line at this point.