| ▲ | thatfrenchguy 7 hours ago |
| Cardiac events from Apple Watches is not “AI” though |
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| ▲ | jonahx 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| It unequivocally is AI. It's just not LLM-powered. The rising LLM = AI equivalency is unfortunate. |
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| ▲ | LoganDark 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's machine learning, which has overlap with AI but is not completely equivalent. | | |
| ▲ | granzymes 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | The “overlap” is that all machine learning is AI, but not all AI is machine learning. | | |
| ▲ | fragmede a minute ago | parent | next [-] | | To me they're the same thing. If there's a bunch of training data that is fed into a system that creates a model, then it's not traditional programming, where someone laboriously writes out if statements by hand. AI and ML aren't, as far as I'm aware, rigorously specifically defined terms. They're words that marketing picked up and ran with it. To me, what matters is: is there a black box somewhere in the system that's a bag of numbers, or is it code that a human could dig in and read. | |
| ▲ | HappMacDonald 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > but not all AI is machine learning I will instead pick at this latter part of your claim. What is an example of something that is AI but that is not ML..? | | | |
| ▲ | AdieuToLogic 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > The “overlap” is that all machine learning is AI ... "All machine learning" is not AI, as k-means clustering and linear regression, amongst others, are very much ML without qualifying as AI algorithms. | | |
| ▲ | ruszki 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence As it is taught literally every single AI/machine learning course on the world, machine learning is very much part of AI completely since inception. I don’t completely understand why it is this important for you to argue against this completely defined fact. | | |
| ▲ | RuslanL an hour ago | parent [-] | | It is correct to argue about misleading terminology. "AI" contains the word "intelligence", and for instance logistic regression algorithm is not intelligent, while it is clearly ML, since machine learns something. As Machine learning is broader category, it should include Artificial Intelligence, not vice versa. Also, 'every single course' is perhaps an overstatement - a course that I co-authored tries to get it right from the first principles. | | |
| ▲ | ruszki an hour ago | parent [-] | | It wasn't misleading for 70 years... How did it become misleading? |
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| ▲ | solumunus 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The machine is learning something so that it can produce outputs based on its learned knowledge. At a high level that seems to be very clearly AI. What am I missing here? You’re probably right, I’m asking genuinely. |
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| ▲ | lazide an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Bayes is turning in his grave fast enough to power Manhattan. | |
| ▲ | LoganDark 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There are both ML that is not AI, and AI that is not ML. For example, if you pick them manually, decision trees can be AI but not ML. Video game character behavior is a trivial example. Eliza for example is also not ML, but could be called AI. Likewise, there is ML that is not AI. Such is debatable, because you could always argue that using machine-learning on anything results in intelligence. The way I see it, things like image enhancement or voice replacement are not artificial intelligence at all. I probably could not define a hard line where it becomes artificial intelligence though. | |
| ▲ | kennywinker 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | At this point AI is a marketing term not an actual category | | |
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| ▲ | ch4s3 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It’s machine learning, which people routinely called AI not so long ago. |
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| ▲ | nunez 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | ML was always marketed separately as AI/ML, with AI being things like CNNs/RNNs/BERTs and such. Always felt like a distinction without a difference. | | |
| ▲ | BeetleB 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't think so. ML was always associated with AI. When it wasn't, it was called statistics. |
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| ▲ | LoganDark 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I never heard people calling machine learning "AI" until large language models made it trivial to market it as such. Like, I remember back when Netflix, for instance, was going around advertising how machine learning (not AI) powers their recommendations. | | |
| ▲ | inopinatus 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > I never heard… You should listen better. The University of Edinburgh had an entire Department of Artificial Intelligence when I was an undergrad there in the 1990s, and one of the things it researched was machine learning. | | |
| ▲ | LoganDark 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I don't see how including machine learning under the artificial intelligence umbrella counts as calling machine learning AI. | | |
| ▲ | inopinatus 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | My local supermarket places the almond milk in the dairy section, and some people find this very upsetting. | | |
| ▲ | golem14 13 minutes ago | parent [-] | | My local cvs refused to let me buy non-alcoholic Bloody Mary mix aka spicy tomato juice without ID, because it was slotted in the alcoholic category. |
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| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
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| ▲ | fn-mote 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Ed: I disagree. My recollection is that machine learning was routinely sold as “AI” even when it obviously wasn’t. (IBM’s Watson was good at Jeopardy but not real medical applications.) This isn’t exactly the same, but nothing in the book Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence would be considered AI today. | | |
| ▲ | LoganDark 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | You must be thinking of a different machine learning. All the on-device machine learning, backend machine learning, OCR, etc. was all called "machine learning" before LLMs. Yes, the field of artificial intelligence still existed, often used machine learning, and called the result "AI". But Apple would call keyboard prediction machine learning. Microsoft would call OCR machine learning. YouTube called machine transcription machine learning. Google called camera image enhancement machine learning. Microsoft now calls everything AI (actually mostly "Copilot"). YouTube now calls everything AI (including genuine LLMs and generative features, but also everything it used to call machine learning). Google now calls everything AI (including everything it used to call machine learning). Apple is seemingly the only one immune. My argument is not that no one ever used "AI" to refer to a product that utilized machine learning, but rather that the term of art in the industry for machine learning itself was actually "machine learning", not "AI", until LLMs took over and made it "AI". You would not pull a library off the shelf for "AI", it would be for machine learning. You would not implement and perform "AI", but machine learning. Even central parts of the AI ecosystem like PyTorch advertise as being for "deep learning", which is a subset of machine learning. Not "AI". | | |
| ▲ | awwaiid 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Counter example, the book that is the foundation of much coursework and learning for people in AI, has a whole section on "Machine Learning" with all that k-means and such in there - https://aima.cs.berkeley.edu/ | | |
| ▲ | LoganDark 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm really not sure how that's a counterexample. The section is called machine learning, not AI. Machine learning is a useful tool for artificial intelligence, so I'd be surprised if a book about AI did not talk about it. | | |
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| ▲ | techpression 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Thank you. I was starting to think the history revision was almost true, but your recollection is very much in sync with my own. Everything was machine learning, nobody talked about AI unless it was for research, now marketing has changed that, unfortunately. | | |
| ▲ | thaumasiotes 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Everything was machine learning, nobody talked about AI unless it was for research Machine learning was AI. The specific wording was a branding choice, because "AI" was a deeply stigmatized brand. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_winter ) But there was not a conceptual division. There's a close analogue to how modern genetic researchers are happy to tell you that your genome is not informative as to your "race", but it is informative as to your "ancestry". |
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| ▲ | bananaflag an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | In 2011, I took an AI course at my university and it was all perceptrons and neural networks. | | |
| ▲ | bagels 41 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I took one longer ago than that and it wasn't all perceptrons and neural networks. It included other things too, like: planning, search methods, inference engines, decision trees, ... |
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| ▲ | woodson 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | For a long time, AI was a bad word that stood for unfulfilled promise. See AI Winter. Hence, researchers strictly avoided the term while still working on learning algorithms, the same that power LLM training. |
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| ▲ | eru 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| It would have been, 20 years ago. |
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| ▲ | granzymes 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | We call things AI until they start working. See also: robots (your washing machine is a robot, but it works so you don’t think of it that way). | | |
| ▲ | Dylan16807 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Calling things "robots" is more about the amount of movement. Spinning in place like a washing machine sprayer isn't enough to qualify. A paint conveyer belt is not a robot. A sprinkler system is not a robot. A CnC machine might be a robot. A conveyer belt that sorts items might be a robot. A roomba is a robot. And all of these function just fine. | |
| ▲ | kennywinker 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think of robots as general purpose, machines are specific purpose. When it works, we make it single purpose because that’s far far cheaper than general purpose. | | |
| ▲ | eru 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Are welding machines at the Volkswagen factory robots? | | |
| ▲ | kennywinker 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Idk could you swap out an attachment and make them to something completely different? | |
| ▲ | AussieWog93 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Are these the ones with 5+ axis arms? Yes, they're robots |
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| ▲ | AussieWog93 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | When I was studying ML back in 2017 people were still calling things like image classifiers "AI". | |
| ▲ | AdieuToLogic 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >> Cardiac events from Apple Watches is not “AI” though > It would have been, 20 years ago. No, it would have been called what it is both then and now; an asynchronous message emitted by a device having sensors capable of detecting when to do so. |
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